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Learning to Dad with Tyler Ross 017 - Caitlin Scott & Sarah

Speaker 2: This is learning to dad. [00:00:30] I am guest host, Caitlin Scott. If you care, I did the cover art for this podcast and the photo that Tyler ended up choosing was like an outtake it's Sarah's hand is the one that you see, like in the foreground. And that's the lovely woman I'm interviewing right now is Tyler's wife, Sarah Ross. And today we're going to be talking about a topic that's really relevant to most women. And definitely me because I'm five months pregnant, but we're going to be talking about Sarah's experience with pregnancy [00:01:00] childbirth and postpartum depression as well. But I wanted to start actually with your career. And can you walk me through like what you went to school for, where you went to school when you met Tyler, when you guys decided to get married and when you decided to have

Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. Hi, I'm Sarah. I am the infamous hand in the learning to dad. It's so

Speaker 2: Pretty. I'm so glad he chose that thing

Speaker 3: Does look really good. My skin looks awesome in that

Speaker 2: Total accident,

Speaker 3: [00:01:30] My nails were done so

Speaker 2: Long and skinny wedding ring hand.

Speaker 3: So yeah, so my career, I went to college and I had no idea what I wanted to do. I just went to college because that's what you do. You go to high school, you apply for colleges. Then you go went to long island, university loved it. And my sophomore year I went to a psychology class. I thought I wanted to do something with psychology.

Speaker 2: I think a lot of girls they want to do. So

Speaker 3: [00:02:00] I don't know. I don't know. I did too. I mean, that's, I don't know. Maybe it kind of sounds easy and everybody knows what that is.

Speaker 2: I think a lot.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I can talk to people, help them with their problems. I don't know. I'll make tons of money. Like that's what you do. And I had the best scariest professor. I'm an only knew him like five days because on the fourth or fifth class that I took, he said, you know, I just want to start this class off saying today's the last day to drop out and or of this [00:02:30] class or of this major without getting penalized or charged for it. And I just need to be honest with you guys that unless you're willing to put in 15 years of hard, dedicated, expensive work, you're never going to make any money. Like he was like, you may as well be, you know, just do something, you know, like a waitress, uh, retail, like something, he said, that's how much money you're going to make. Oh.

Speaker 3: And so I was like, oh right. So I left, I waited until class was over because I am a people pleaser, [00:03:00] but then I left and I just, and I sat and I was smoking cigarettes at the time. And I sat with my roommate Ashby and we sat outside and I was like, what am I going to do? And it just kind of hit me. I was like, I want to be around kids. And I want to be a teacher. Like that's it was how people describe an epiphany. That's really kinda what it felt like. Like it was like, boom. And it felt awesome since I decided since then and love teaching. I [00:03:30] like, I can't think of, I had one year that a kid tried to stab me multiple times the first grader. And so that was not a good

Speaker 2: Multiple times in one session or like throughout the year he's he attempted multiple times.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And, um, it helped, I worked with a lot of great young teachers that, you know, they helped me laugh through it. Cool. But I that's the only bad experience I've had in six ish, seven years of teaching.

Speaker 2: I can't even then, like, it's just the kid, you know, you can't do too much damage. Right.

Speaker 3: Well, mine was six years old. Yours. [00:04:00] I know you with the older kids they can get to you. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I, um, I also, for the audience, I was also a teacher for five years, between the ages of 25 and 30 taught English and my active teaching years, like being paid where some of the best years of my whole life, the, the, the experiences leading up to doing it on my own were completely terrifying. And I remember one time I was in a high school class

Speaker 3: And interning student [00:04:30] teaching

Speaker 2: Kind of thing. And I ended up in a book closet, screaming, like not screaming, but like, like talking, talking to my well, I'm sure they heard every word I said. And I think I called them at one point. But I was with my, like my mentor person and the person that was kind of like helping, you know, the person that I would ask questions to. She was observing. And I, we went into the book closet and I was like, why are they such? But after that, the job that I got in Warrington, um, as a [00:05:00] teacher was just like one of the best things that ever happened to me. And I love seventh and eighth grade kids and people look at me like really? But they were like, they were my group. Like, I felt like they had this, that

Speaker 3: Totally. You've

Speaker 2: Got a group. Yeah. I could channel that energy. Yeah. It's not for everyone. Definitely not. No. So when did you meet Tyler?

Speaker 3: So let's see. I got my first teaching job in Goochland county, the coolest school ever. If anyone [00:05:30] from that ever hear that he ever hear this, it was seriously the best, like Libby high. It was the best, one of the best teaching years, probably the top one on my whole life. And also I met Tyler. You know, you fall in love and everything. How did you guys

Speaker 2: Meet? So

Speaker 3: My parent, my dad grew up here in Northern Virginia. So every hop, my grandmother still lives here. So every holiday we come up here. So I've been here almost every Christmas, Thanksgiving, everything. We also, one of the heirs family, [00:06:00] yearly traditions or holidays is gold cup, the may gold cup here and your county. And so we go to that every year. Tyler has gone with his friends every year and, um, we just met like you do. And so we hit it off. I actually, I was dating somebody at the time. It was kind of on the way out that kind of like when you're 22 and the relationships just gotta end, which we can get to later is like being married is funny that that's not [inaudible] [00:06:30] you don't just stop it

Speaker 2: Now. Well, I'm tired. Are you tired?

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. But Tyler said something, one of the cool it's gotta be in a movie. I want to save it and sell it to somebody sold the rights to somebody for a movie and a script is he told me here at MULO Facebook message. That's kind of how I communicated in the beginning. And a couple of weeks later after meeting him, he wrote me a message and say, Hey, we're going to my buddy, Brooke Howard's lake house. You know, we do this and that, please bring a friend. You know, I [00:07:00] know you live with a few girls and he said, but your boyfriend's not invited. And I was like, like, that was, I thought that was sassy. That was kind of why I didn't go heartbeat quickens. I didn't, I didn't go. Wow. I was still dating the guy. That was nice of you. It was, yeah.

Speaker 2: You are such a good

Speaker 3: Person. But yeah, he, I mean, Tyler is as good as a person, as he seems right off the bat. That was my only inhibition was you can't be this great, [00:07:30] you know, like when does the, and then where's the real you. Right. And that's why I didn't jump right in from the beginning. I think I just thought he was full of it, you know, but he's, he's really not. He's annoyingly that kind of positive and motivated and totally dedicated to my happiness as he seems like he is. I know that's awesome. He really is. It's obnoxious. I mean, I got annoyed with him this morning. Cause he's trying to find us a great house. Like with [00:08:00] me,

Speaker 2: I get annoyed. I hope my husband doesn't listen to this when he's like trying to cook for me and make me things to eat, which is one of my favorite things to do is eat. And he wants to know like, what are you in the mood for? I mean, I'm annoyed is too strong, a word it's just like, I can do it, but I really can't.

Speaker 3: You really can't make it. You don't really know

Speaker 2: Really. He that's the, the constantly like [00:08:30] looking out for your needs. It's so selfless that it's almost like, but, but please don't get me wrong. I would not want to think to change it. It makes me very happy. And I feel like I'm bragging talking about it, but that's wonderful. So you guys had the makings of a great marriage.

Speaker 3: Yes. We jumped into the whole thing really fast and I don't regret it because everything I have now is, oh yeah, perfect. Um, Ty and I F U C U F, as you can see from the picture, what is that called? The pirate pet. It's called cover art

Speaker 2: Cover. [00:09:00] Yeah.

Speaker 3: I think as you can see by Caitlin's picture on the cover art, we have two kids and they're perfect. Like I can't, I'm trying to think of something that's wrong with him. Like, you know, like there's just, it's ridiculous. I love that. I feel the same way about like, I dunno, such a crush on my son knowing sometimes like she doesn't like stop. I don't know. Like there's just nothing. And so I wouldn't take anything back, but I think that we like boom, boom, boom. I think I was stuck with the [00:09:30] traditions of like with the college thing, you graduate high school and then you go to college. Right.

Speaker 2: And this is what we do now. Yeah. And then following I'm doing what I think I need to be doing. It's almost like I know exactly what you're talking about. And now the kids that I used to teach are going off to college. And when I run into them, I ask them like, what are you doing? Like tell me, what's your plan. And they're not all doing the traditional thing. And I think that's great because I do think like from the time you were old enough to like, even like retain memories, you, [00:10:00] you were told that college is going to be in your future somewhere. And that's what we work toward, but no one really talks about career. Do they?

Speaker 3: Um, even you saying career, I had to, I was like, what, what do you mean I really did. I thought I was like, give me my job. Like, that's so funny careers. That word was not yeah.

Speaker 2: The dream or like the, the goals stop at college. And I SIM had a similar situation where I went and going, not sure why I'm here, what I'm going to do with this whole experience. [00:10:30] And, you know, it took actually graduating college for me to realize that I wanted to be a teacher. So I had to go back and get a master's. Yeah. Like I think you are sort of thrust into this traditional path and unless you are a very, um, if, unless you are not a people pleaser and you think outside the box, and you're not afraid to think outside of the box, I think you do just sort of find yourself in this like channel with everyone else. Like, oh, this is, this is what I'm doing now. And I think, you know, that that lasts until you realize that maybe [00:11:00] you, you want something different or, you know, you become old enough to realize like, oh, maybe that wasn't like what I would have done if I had been left to think about it myself. But, um, so how you, you were in college, you graduated and what, how old were you when you, how old were you when you started dating Tyler? 22.

Speaker 3: I've gotten my new teaching job, but I hadn't started. So what is that about? 22. That's 21, 22. Right. And, um, we dated for about three years and then got [00:11:30] married. Okay. So

Speaker 2: You were

Speaker 3: 25, 25, 26 when we got married and then gracing came like the next year, like I was pregnant right after Christmas. Okay. And how that was and then, and then Riley.

Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the interesting Riley

Speaker 3: Is the product of the,

Speaker 2: Um, the following this year,

Speaker 3: The six. Yeah. So Riley came, our little boy came six weeks, or he's the God of the six week appointment [00:12:00] where the doctor tells you after giving birth that you can do, you know, you can work out, you can, you know, have sex, you can do whatever you want. And he was that. So then he came,

Speaker 2: Wait a minute, let me just make sure I have this time.

Speaker 3: He came like 10 months after we agreed. No, God, that doesn't make sense. That was

Speaker 2: One year

Speaker 3: After. Right. They were both born in September. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2: So they're one precisely one year apart. Right. And that's close if anyone, if you don't know, [00:12:30] that's really,

Speaker 3: You're not supposed to do that. Um, so that actually, you know, what's cool is that actually felt really good. I liked being a little bit different with the traditional stuff, because that was, that's not what you do that that's not, that stands out. So I felt like that was kinda neat that I did something a little bit different and then he came along. Yeah. But that is, I do not recommend it to anybody. I think, I don't [00:13:00] think the female brain or body was capable of that at all. Like I know throughout history, you know, it's kind of like, right. You're supposed to just pump out babies. Like that's what we're physically meant to do. Right. But I don't think there's

Speaker 2: Just, it's not

Speaker 3: Healthy. No, it's not. Thank you. It's not healthy. Yeah. Like my boss, like I went into early labor with Riley, so I was on bed rest. He's like I said, he's perfect. I was perfect. You know, I walked away from the hospital two days later after he was born. But yeah, I went on bedrest [00:13:30] and like my placenta wouldn't come out and just, I just kind of felt, and then the postpartum mean your hormones, right? Like just what my body went through through that.

Speaker 2: When everything is when all is, well, I feel like the hormones are pretty incredible and I'm like, no one can really explain it to you. And I don't want to, I don't want to fall into the trap of like focusing on the negative of being a pregnant [00:14:00] woman and a mother, because honestly I'm in my second pregnancy and we were just talking about our kids and how, oh my gosh. Like the love, the love that you feel, feel superhuman. You've never loved anyone. Like you've loved your kids. No, no sibling, parent friend lover, no one comes close to the love that you feel for your kids. And it's a really special honor to, to have that. Love it. And to experience that love in your life. [00:14:30] And I, you know, I think I w one of the things I kind of wanted to talk about today was the, the fear that surrounds this whole thing. And like, particularly

Speaker 3: The just parenthood or pregnancy,

Speaker 2: Both and especially birth. Because I think the, the negative history that sort of been passed down right. From like, think about your mom's story about your birth and friends' stories and grandparents. And it's like, everyone talks about [00:15:00] it with this certain level of like, please expect to go through a lot of pain. And this is a Rite of passage and it's unavoidable. And, and I, and Dr. Certainly are like, it's like a menu of drugs that you get, like, it's not, oh, we'll do this. If you know, you start to, if you need it, but it's like, what do you, what do you want? You want an epidural? You want an induction you want, so I think the, the process of birth has been so like interfered with and injected with all this fear that like, of course, [00:15:30] it's like a self fulfilling prophecy. Of course, you're going to be frightened when you start to go into labor.

Speaker 2: And of course it's going to cause complications when you're frightened, because I'm reading this book, sorry to go on and on. But I'm reading this book about like how the female body works and like, in any, in any situation where you have to perform physically, if you are overcome with fear, you're not going to function like your body, your body won't function the way it's supposed to. So the muscles of your uterus, which you're supposed to just open up like a flower and, you know, it's, [00:16:00] it's supposed to work and it has worked, but all the interfeence makes that process of, you know, actually delivering a child really difficult and painful. And it causes issues that you deal with for years after. Yes. Right. Would you agree that yeah, you didn't just like heal up and you were the same as before. So

Speaker 3: Physically I was, I'm trying to, I just read Rachel Hollis, his latest book, um, she's the kind of self what'd you call her a self, self motive, [00:16:30] uh, self, some motivational speaker, motivational speaker, kind of like, Hey girl, just love yourself. Get over, get over yourself. You know what I mean? Kind of thing in a good way. And she says like, try to breath. You know, like it's okay to brag because it's not actually bragging. It's just saying how it is. And if it's good, that's just the facts kind of thing. So I'm trying to do that physically. My body are we allowed to say the F word? It just rocked it. My body racked it. I left [00:17:00] both pregnancies, wearing jeans that I had worn before I was pregnant during the pregnancy. I think I just gained the weight in my belly. Like I think, I mean, it was, I worked out, I mean, besides the bitterest thing, I couldn't work out, but I mean, I worked out, I felt good. I don't remember being really depressed when Riley was on, when I was on bedrest, I was just scared shitless the whole time. Right. Please don't come out. Please don't come out. But Busta, I mean, but I had a good time, but mentally I think hormonally, I couldn't [00:17:30] handle it. Like afterwards, it just all kind of plummeted. Right?

Speaker 2: Like when did you feel that start to happen?

Speaker 3: See, I think just the day of, I think the day that they came out and I had always looked for the, um, one of my best friends, Leanne, who all forced to listen to this, she had gone through it as well. And her biggest thing was that she didn't feel that connection with the baby, you know, like she would look at it and just think like, what, what is this? Like, um, you [00:18:00] know, like, what is this? And she was like, okay, something's not right. And she went and she got herself help. And she, I mean, she's the best mom ever now. She always was, but she feels that connection with her. Um, now five-year-old but, so I was looking for that and I was always obsessed with Grayson. I was always obsessed with Riley, like that love that you were talking about. Right. But I just, I hated myself.

Speaker 3: Like I didn't, I didn't connect with Tyler. Like I didn't, I, it was just, I didn't like [00:18:30] my life and there was nothing I could do about it. Like I hate my house. It was just a hate of everything. Not seeing the point to the day, not feeling a connection with anybody except your baby. Like, it was a little bit of the opposite. They were my only friend, you know? And so in fact, last night we were at a party and I was talking to somebody about that, about postpartum. And she said the same thing. She was like, yeah. But you know, I still love my baby. And I was like, please, that's not the only thing. Right. It's [00:19:00] just, if you're not happy with yourself, cause life's awesome. Right. You know, like everybody's lives, I think can just be awesome. So if you're not liking it and you don't want to do anything about it, that's, that's a problem. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So I guess postpartum depression affects different people differently. Did you, like when you talk about that disconnect, did you almost feel like it was difficult for you to like function and do the things like the tasks that you had to do? Like, did that seem like this insurmountable [00:19:30] thing where like, you're like, I don't even, I don't even think I can stand up or like the baby's crying. I'm not sure I can even go get the baby.

Speaker 3: I felt that I just felt super jealous of everybody, of everybody. Like everybody had it better than me. Tyler got to go to work. Tyler. She had like

Speaker 2: Hardcore FOMO. Yes.

Speaker 3: I had so much, oh gosh. I would call Lee and crying. Just saying, you know, I saw that you were out with so-and-so [00:20:00] for dinner and like, you know, you put it on Instagram and I just ball on the phone with her. And I was like, I just want to move like back home with my mom. And like just that kind of feeling. And she was like, that's not normal. Like you have, you have friends, you have a great life, like, right. Something's not processing with you

Speaker 2: As you have any, um, uh, I suffered a little bit of depression during my fifth month of my first pregnancy. And the

Speaker 3: During pregnancy was so weird. And I didn't know that that, but it's, I mean, it's hormonal. Yeah.

Speaker 2: It was, it was the real [00:20:30] deal. And I knew it was because I felt like I was actually, I mean, this is not about me, but I felt like I was actually in a deep dark hole that just kept getting deeper. And the light was getting further and further away and smaller and smaller all

Speaker 3: Alone. And I was all alone,

Speaker 2: All alone, all alone with like, self-loathing terror that like my husband would leave me. I was horrible at my job that I was a worthless, a worthless human being with no value to anybody that's those, these were like the, this, that was the voice in my head. So I'm [00:21:00] curious to know, like, what was the voice in your head saying to you

Speaker 3: That I had chosen everything wrong for my life that I like, how did I get here? Like, and I would just think of things in the past. Like why did I just everything that had led me up to this moment, like, did you kind of made all the wrong decisions? Did you want to

Speaker 2: Start over? Did you want to chance?

Speaker 3: I, I, I wanted to just grab Tyler [00:21:30] and the kids or just Grayson when it was just her and I just wanted to move back home. Like I needed a safe space. Like I needed, I wanted to be back I'm from Roanoke. I wanted to be back in Roanoke, around my parents, around my friends that I'd known for 20 years. Like that was the only thing that was going to make it better. But it's just, it's not like I, you just got to learn to like

Speaker 2: Embrace your reality. Yes. Yeah. It's not always

Speaker 3: Easy to do. No. And that's also, I don't think it's [00:22:00] also not always the answer. Like sometimes you just need to change it. Like, I don't think I should have moved back to Roanoke, but I should have talked to Tyler about my exact feelings. You know, he, he's amazing at not, he's never judged me. Like, especially when I was pregnant or outwardly, he's never told me. That's

Speaker 2: Awesome. That's awesome that you even feel that way.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Like let's say if I, I was like, you know, I really want to become pregnant. You know, I really want a big sip of wine or something. Like, [00:22:30] I don't know. What do you think? Like, and he's like, I go for what makes you happy? Like, that's almost his answer to everything. Like he never, cause I've heard about, you know, women that their husbands are very controlling about their decisions they're making pregnant, which I am not jealous of that position. Like men who are listening to this, I would always take being pregnant than other than watching. It just happen in front of you and really having no control over. Right.

Speaker 2: Are you saying that you empathize [00:23:00] with men because it's like a little bit and, and I'm just saying, this is sort of like a typical male desire to, to be helpful or to, or to have some control level of control with something that's so new and weird. Yeah. To not know what to do to help. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Tyler and I fell into a little bit of the 1940s, 1950s. He went to work and I did everything at home and we both, I think, let that happen. I think maybe because it's like the traditional [00:23:30] things, like, it's sure it's, uh, it's just what you're supposed to do. It's what you're supposed to do.

Speaker 2: Right. Like you're supposed to go to college. You're supposed to, and it felt right. And neither of you had an argument about it, so it just happened.

Speaker 3: Exactly. We just never talked about it. And um, you know, getting up, I got up every night and fed the baby every night, even when she was all bottles or he was all bottles, like I would do it because I thought, you know what? He needs sleep. And again, the people pleaser came up, came in me. And I think that's most [00:24:00] of, I think that's most women, I think we are such people pleasers because that's what we've been. I mean, for hundreds of years, we, we take care of. That's just what we do. And instead of it being like a bad-ass thing that we, we run every, like, what does Beyonce say? We run the world. Yeah. Yeah. Like we, um, I mean, we really honestly do. And I think instead of it becoming this really cool, powerful thing instead it's, you know, the heavy. Yeah. [00:24:30] And it's instead kind of like the sad thing like that we do. And you know, so Tyler made all the money and then he would bring it home,

Speaker 2: Treat him, comes with that, making all the money so much freedom.

Speaker 3: It was probably the hardest thing. And I'd love to know how other women and men, whether it's the man staying at home or the one I'm sitting them, I would love to know how they handle the pride factor. That was a big deal for me is for him to like hand me money. I just felt that felt like crap. And I don't know [00:25:00] why, like he, I now see it as Tyler went out to earn this money for us, instead of him making this money and then handing me a 20 to get a target.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Because it feels a little bit like a stereotype that in your words is sad, right? Like, oh, that means that she can't, but it's like, but then when women do work, it's not like anything changes for the man. When a woman, a mother, I'm sorry, a mother works now, she's just doing all the things.

Speaker 3: Now she's got [00:25:30] two jobs. I'm feeling that,

Speaker 2: Right? Cause you're not, you're not like cutting back on motherhood. You're still doing weather hood 100% with the exception of maybe some childcare in there, but you still have to be involved in their lives and know what's going on and who their teachers are and what their relationships are like with their friends. And you know, who's growing out of their clothes right now and needs new, this, that the other. And when am I going to find time to do that while I also have a career that needs my attention and especially teaching where now you're a mother to like, how many

Speaker 3: Cause you [00:26:00] do when you love teaching, you do love the kids. Genuinely think about them. Like I get now maybe this is jumping. But those, those, those crappy teachers that you meet along the way, and you're like, they're, they're doing it right. Like they're coming and they're not really caring. They go home and they have energy for their kids. I get it. Like, I think it's going to be a crappy to another epiphany. I'm going to be a crappy teacher later and see how that works. But I mean, that's just,

Speaker 2: So did you recently go back to teaching your kids now? Their [00:26:30] ages are

Speaker 3: Three and a half and four and a half. Okay. And they are in preschool here in Warrington. And I went back as a kindergarten assistant because I thought that the assistant job would take away. It would basically be like a nine to five where I could click it and click out, go home. And I could do what I love. Then clock out, not do planning, teacher parent-teacher meetings, you know, all the, basically all the crap that comes along with being a teacher. Right. And, and it just, it was the time it was that I went that I go from eight to three that [00:27:00] I just, I got home. I didn't have, I don't have energy for the kids. There's no flexibility. The teacher that I work with is amazing. And like, if my kids are sick or it's snow day, she has never given me a hard time about like, that's what subs are for just, you know, it's okay. But that's just not, I can't handle that guilt. Right.

Speaker 2: Do you feel like you've made this commitment? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I totally feel that. I, because I was a, I was a teacher when I was not a mother, so yeah. I mean, you're at it like, [00:27:30] you know, but also the wall you're, you're waking up early, you're going to bed late and you can't imagine doing it any other way. And then when you have to do it another way, there's a guilt because you're, you're reducing the energy and time and love. You're putting into something that's important to you. Yeah.

Speaker 3: So I'm going to stay at home again next year. And Tyler is really relieved because you know, I'm going to be more relaxed and the house will be taken care of. Like I see [00:28:00] now, you know, this goes, I really want all the women listening and all the men listening to, to know that like, whether you feel like this or you don't, I want you to feel this way because staying at home and instead of how it used to be where I'd be on the couch and Tyler would come home and I'd have one of the babies or both. And he'd say, what'd you do today? And I was like, well, I stayed in my fricking pajamas all day, but I did put the laundry away. You know, like now when he walks in, I'm going to be like, [00:28:30] you know what? I stayed in my PJ's all day, but I did the laundry. Like now it's like this pride thing, taking care of house is hard. It's so hard. Yeah. It's S it's Yeah. It's a job to be proud of. And so if there are men thinking like, I got home and Stacy just, you know, all she did was the dishes like, no. Yeah. So she did your dishes or women

Speaker 2: Have a clean dish dinner off of,

Speaker 3: Or [00:29:00] the women or the women that I, you know, that are staying at home and feeling bad. One of my girls, Amanda, once said, we were kind of both going through like some, oh my God, what? Like we had kids and now we're at home. Holy. What happened to her lives? Right. She, you know, she did this, it was funny, but it was also sad. She was like, it just feels like my day is breakfast, lunch, dinner, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and that's it. But I just, I don't want it taking care of a house is amazing.

Speaker 2: It's hard and it's important. And it it's like, [00:29:30] what do you have if you don't have a house, what do you have? Um, and you both, and both men and women contribute to the, having of that house in their own ways. And both ways are equally valid.

Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to earn all the money. Would you want to do that?

Speaker 2: I've thought about that. Um, and no, I, well, it depends on what my job was. If I got to photograph famous people like in a portrait studio all day, maybe, um, because that's like my dream. But, uh, [00:30:00] but no, I think there's a lot of pressure on men too, that we made that maybe they don't talk about. And that's like, you know, I would

Speaker 3: Love to hear men talk about that.

Speaker 2: Can you imagine how Tyler felt when he found out you were pregnant again and like the enormous pressure?

Speaker 3: I don't know. It's funny. I look back at him with such pride that he hid his stress for me when I was on bedrest and we are flipping a house, we own two houses. And the one that we were flipping [00:30:30] was not, it was God, it was a huge house. And, um, it was way too big and we just thought we were going to pop in and out of it. But the utilities alone were like, we're just extraordinary because you know, it's, uh, it was a mansion basically. Right. And, um, we were living in like a fourth of it and his eye looking back, his beard started to fall out. He had a beard, I loved having a beard and he had patches. Oh no. And I remember asking him about it, like, Hey, your beard. And he's allergic to citrus [00:31:00] random side note. And he would tell me like, oh, I think I had an orange, but he told me like later, or he actually was telling a friend and I kind of ever heard we were at a big dinner table and I overheard, and he said, yeah, you know, when Sarah's on better as we it's two houses.

Speaker 3: And I was basically just trying to make money, just, you know, I was so stressed. He was like, I was losing hair and I just kind of overheard it and I thought, holy, like, so it's, I'm a little embarrassed at both of us that we didn't just [00:31:30] sit and talk about it. We didn't have a little check-ins with each other.

Speaker 2: So is that never,

Speaker 3: Ever, did we never talked about anything?

Speaker 2: Why do you think

Speaker 3: That is? I think we were both afraid to, I think we're both, I'm more of a people pleaser than he is, for sure. He's not afraid to, to, to rock the boat a little bit respectively, but I think he still is a little bit of wine, especially when it comes to me. But so we just, we never talked about anything. I never told him like what

Speaker 2: Your feelings are worried

Speaker 3: Or no. [00:32:00] And I think we were just both scared to say things we were feeling because they were scary. Like Tyler I'm scared to death or baby inside me might die. Right. Or, you know, he was like, I'm scared to death that I can't afford these bills. Like, and I wish it was, we both had

Speaker 2: Tense things that, that it's like, man, that's why you get married is to share those kinds of fears and like,

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I hate that. Cause I think we missed out a little bit on some really cool, just some of like one of our years together [00:32:30] was not, not a wash, but we just did.

Speaker 2: It's almost like it. Like I remember I overheard I think it was like said something to somebody and then they told me that like, you guys didn't talk for two years. I

Speaker 3: Didn't. Yeah. I don't think we did. And it wasn't a hateful way. No,

Speaker 2: It was because you were both so consumed with what was going on.

Speaker 3: And if we have a third baby, I don't know if, I mean, I don't know if that I had, who knew I got it, but I

Speaker 2: Have, there's no pressure to have

Speaker 3: A thing, [00:33:00] but if we do, it's going to be so different. And I think that's, you know, if ever I see this little young, in's getting married, all these youths that are getting engaged in things. I want it. Like, I try to tell them like, please be okay, hurting his feelings or to him, like please hurt her feelings. It's okay. Like she agreed to marry you. Like she's living in that crappy apartment with you. Like whatever, like you guys like each other, you're not going to scare away, gave me

Speaker 2: Chills.

Speaker 3: If [00:33:30] you do scare them away, then they weren't supposed to be there. Totally. Because like, you can't die and not have been yourself. Like, can you imagine like being hit by a bus and then being in a hospital bed. And they were like, you know, you got five minutes and then you're like, I have so much to tell Tyler, I have so much to tell you. I don't like that band. I don't like green beans. I hate your hair like that. Like I just, I that's a big thing lately. So [00:34:00] for me,

Speaker 2: Do you think, okay. Do you think, would you credit your sort of like the strong silence that you guys at that front you were putting up? Did you credit that to just immaturity in youth and just yeah.

Speaker 3: Yes I do. I do. Yeah. Yuck. I do. I think it was being young. We were just talking

Speaker 2: Any other day, Sarah and I about you and I were yeah. About these girls on Instagram that are just so beautiful and it just makes you go, like you look at yourself. [00:34:30] And then I, you know, I said like, for me, selfies are just so painful to post this. Just like it's agony, just even thinking about it. But then I thought I said to you, I was like, yeah, but you know what? We're probably so much more confident than they are really. And you're like, yeah,

Speaker 3: What did you say? You were like, they're probably miserable. Right? Or like

Speaker 2: Are just like, we're just more confident than they are. And I really believe that, like that thing you said about just telling them the truth and not being afraid to hurt their feelings. My God, that's like the most beautiful piece of marriage advice I've [00:35:00] ever heard in

Speaker 3: My life.

Speaker 2: I live by that. And I wasn't even consciously living by that. But like, we, we have these little, our fights now are so small and quick and they're over so quickly. And we move on so quickly because we have a habit of just being like, no, man, don't talk to me like that. Or no, I can't, you know, we're not doing it that way. Or we just, nobody, nobody just puts their head down and being like, well, you know, I hope that this, I hope that [00:35:30] he or she stops doing what they're doing. No. We talk immediately about what our beef is and God made us respect each other so much more. It's awesome. And it's a little uncomfortable, but it's hard.

Speaker 3: Like a man and a woman, I think like any two people living together, I've lived with one of my, I mean my maid of honor with my best friend, Adrian, we lived together and it worked, but we had two bedrooms, you know, like maybe the people [00:36:00] in the twenties, was it like in the twenties, the thirties, the forties, they all had. They had the two little, two little twin beds. Yeah. I, well, maybe not that I think the two bedroom thing, but anyways, I, you know, we worked it out, but just being roommates in general is hard being roommates in general. And then you've committed yourself to one person for the rest of your life. Like it's kind of insane.

Speaker 2: A little insane, especially when you, when you, when you make that promise and commitment before you are [00:36:30] like a self-actualized adult.

Speaker 3: Oh my God. Grayson has this body book. It's that somebody got her, it's like my body, you know, flipping through it. And I eventually like started to read through it myself. I learned so much about the vagina that I had no idea, the names of things. I had one for 33 years that I didn't know, half that I learned in this toddler's body. Well, it wasn't a toddler book. It was like elementary school, you know,

Speaker 2: Part and body part. We're calling it the wrong thing. Half the Tut's not oh

Speaker 3: [00:37:00] Yes. To follow the

Speaker 2: Parts, see all the guys, it's not a vagina. Well, China's a very specific part. The Volvo is the part you're probably thinking about right now. But,

Speaker 3: Um,

Speaker 2: But like those aren't, those are not facts that were given to us. And I think that contributed

Speaker 3: It's a lot too. You know what, actually, our poor health teachers, I guarantee they taught us that in like seventh grade, but we weren't listening. I was listening. Listen, here's what you're such a beautiful nerd. I hear it was raft. [00:37:30] I was ugly Cougar. That was beautiful.

Speaker 2: That's why I have so much like character and personality now is, cause I had to really earn it. I had to really earn it,

Speaker 3: But the brain has not cut all that out and restart it. But the brain is not fully developed until you're like it's 20 to 22 years old.

Speaker 2: I thought it was even older. I thought it was 25.

Speaker 3: It could, that [00:38:00] could be when like certain processes finish or like whatever. But holy crap. And I

Speaker 2: Just,

Speaker 3: I know it's given me a whole new perspective. Yes. That when did you and Cole meet? How old were you? I was

Speaker 2: Five. He was 21. That's right. You're in the queue gear. Yes. And I remember when I realized that I wanted to marry him because I had heard that fact somewhere about your brain, not fully developing your Tony

Speaker 3: And you went and found yourself one that [00:38:30] you could mold.

Speaker 2: Well, that's partly true. I know, but I, I wanted to make sure that like I was the right person for him and I wanted to make sure that he was 25. By the time we really fully, like I had a ring on my finger, like you must be 25. So

Speaker 3: That's really cool. I

Speaker 2: Just loved him so much. And I knew that, you know, if the roles were reversed and I was like the young one or the one, you know, pre 25, like let's make sure this [00:39:00] is right. And let's make sure this is really what you want because a young man getting married, I think is a little more unusual socially than a young woman.

Speaker 3: What makes you cringe a little bit? Doesn't it? Which part? It's super young man getting married

Speaker 2: A little and I don't know why we'll be guys because their brains aren't fully developed and it's like, man, this is a really major decision. And I want to make sure that it's I know it's right for me. I want to make sure it's right for you. And um, and that was like my, that was the rule I put down in it. It worked out. Did you say that? [00:39:30] I did. Oh yeah. Cool. Well, I was, um, I was in a really bad relationship before Cole. So my, the promise I made to myself one night during like the agony of breaking up was whoever I'm with next is going to know exactly how I feel about things all the time. Awesome. And I really, I stuck to that with him. And I think him being younger helped me carry that out because there's something I think there is something about being older, that it gives you just a little bit of confidence [00:40:00] and like, yeah, boy, I've been around. Like, I'm not, you know, if you don't like what I have to say, that's cool.

Speaker 3: It's fine. It's kind of a maternal. I never felt

Speaker 2: Maternal toward him, but I did feel like super independent, cool from day one. Like I never felt like co-dependent with him. And I think that was good for me. Awesome. Yeah. Anyway, it's not about me. I had some like cool questions I wanted to ask you that I've been collecting for months. Just like, cause I love interviewing [00:40:30] people. The one thing that I need to work on stop, like not talking about myself so much, but you're

Speaker 3: Interesting.

Speaker 2: But um, let's see, I had these questions and uh, well, one quick thing real quick. When did you start to feel better? Like we were talking about postpartum depression. I want it just for women that might be going through it or are about to have a child. How did things like right themselves for you and Tyler?

Speaker 3: So talking, I give Leanne and Roanoke, [00:41:00] Virginia. I give her a ton of credit because she's never been afraid to hurt my feelings. And I think that's why we're such good friends. Is she, you know, she's the one that told me when I call her crying, like this is not normal. Like that's not a real problem. Like, you know that like you need to, you need to take care of this. You need to get, you

Speaker 2: Shouldn't be complacent with this.

Speaker 3: Yes. You can't be complacent with this. And so I went to see a doctor and she did and here in town and she did some blood work and [00:41:30] also they give you a little interview on a piece of paper, like a questionnaire fill in the bubble thing. And it was really eye-opening to me that on the questionnaire I like, I started to lie like, and it was just for me and the doctor and I lied on it. Like it was like, you know, it's like, if you thought about killing yourself and that was no, I was like, no, I've never like, I, I really, that never really crossed my mind. It, I think it crossed my mind as much as it does anybody. Right. Like that sounds super morbid, but the thought has crossed everybody's minds before [00:42:00] that. Sure. Not, you know, not in an intense way, but just like not in a specific way.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, you know, but things like, God, I can't even remember, but just like, are you generally unhappy? Do you hate the way you look? Do you, you know, do you hate your baby? That was a no, but it just, all these questions I started to kind of fib on and I was like, no, I'm good. I'm going to be honest. Like yes or no. I don't like the way I look or I'm not proud of myself [00:42:30] or, and all this stuff. And so that was the most I could have just used that interview for myself to look at it, seeing written down and think like that is the authentic and that needs to change. But that extra did blood work. And just looking at my questionnaire, she was like, you know, you, I think medication could help. And I did try that.

Speaker 3: It's funny. I would recommend it to anybody because it got me out of the ditch. Like it, it squared away my hormones that I felt normal again. Right. But getting off of it [00:43:00] was really bad. It was, it was really hard, not really bad. It was really hard. I think I had to try like three or four times. I've never known what addiction is. Like knock on wood. I've never had a problem with addiction, but I get, I, I know now why it's so hard for people because I needed it. You know, I get off of it and the feelings would come flooding back. Like I'd wake up and think, you know, like, why did I choose this? Like, like why did I choose this life and

Speaker 2: Had the consciousness to be like, oh,

Speaker 3: I know what, this is the third [00:43:30] time I tried to get off of it. And the frickin difference was Tyler and I talked about it and I was just really honest. I just talked to him like I would a therapist or a best friend. Like that's what they are. That's what they are. We forget that, you know, you qualify somebody as a best friend to somebody felt really comfortable with

Speaker 2: This modern day. I think we can say that, that they, like people say, oh, well your spouse can't be everything to you. Well, they can be, no, they can't be.

Speaker 3: But keeping your girlfriend. No, that's a different relationship, but they can

Speaker 2: Certainly, for the love of God, [00:44:00] be your best friend. It

Speaker 3: Could be someone you could tell

Speaker 2: A lot of things to a lot of your inner, inner city,

Speaker 3: You know, like Susie and Leanne from Roanoke. Like they're my best friends. Cause I've known them so long and we're just sisters. But you know, we told each other when we lost her virginity and like, oh, we told them, I tell them everything. And you know, we share toothbrushes when we go on trips. So we're best friends, but you think about, so like that's what you know, but then you think about your husband and you're like, we made people [00:44:30] to get like that. We own a house together. Like that is best for

Speaker 2: Sleep. Side-by-side every night

Speaker 3: To say best friend. And I think that we forget, but yeah, I think that is a fine line. They can't be your girlfriend. And I think that that is something I'd love to talk to men about is what that's like, you know, to like what w w how they feel like the friendship factor should be between like, you know, them and their wives. [00:45:00] Like, I don't know what I'm getting at, but like,

Speaker 2: I like that you have to sort of be this. You have to be ready to put your judge your judgment aside when someone tells you something vulnerable, like talking about depression, it's not easy to talk about, uh, talking about fears, talking about all these, like all these vulnerabilities. It, I remember feeling like one of my big problems with my depression during my pregnancy [00:45:30] was like, feeling like, and I don't know if this was perceived or true, but feeling like my husband would judge me for certain things that had happened at work and like, feeling completely crippled, unable to talk to him about it. And I'm like, I'm just going to

Speaker 3: Like the fear of him being like, embarrassed for you or

Speaker 2: Disappointed in me. Like, w what do you mean that happened? How could that have happened? You know? So I, I remember thinking I'm just gonna push this down, [00:46:00] like a frickin trash compactor. Just keep it in, push it down. It's going to go skate. Oh, man. It got full. So quit matter

Speaker 3: How. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: That's why I use that whole analogy. Exactly. Right.

Speaker 3: Like it'll fit for awhile.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It, it didn't take long for me to feel like I was completely losing my mind. And as soon as I started talking about it to people like multiple people, like it wasn't healing me right away. But I finally, like, I just got down the [00:46:30] line, like mom, mother-in-law husband, sister-in-law girlfriends. And then finally I got to these two girlfriends and I told them like, I'm having major problems. I don't think I'm depressed. I hate myself. I can't tell Cole this, that and the other. And I decided to not let any of my shame, like stay hidden. And I dumped everything on them and they didn't even know each other. It was hilarious. They just happened to be in the same place at the same time. I'm like, lucky them, Kim, this is Lily [00:47:00] Lily. This is Kim guys lucky. And I just completely opened the flood gates. And it, the next day the sun was shining in my mind. You got it out.

Speaker 3: I got it out.

Speaker 2: How did they react

Speaker 3: Cancer? How did they

Speaker 2: React to that? Helps you to flee just man, like zero judgment. That was a great, great feeling to just be able to tell someone your deepest, darkest awfulness and have their expression not change. Yes. And just at you, like with just [00:47:30] love in their eyes, that was like huge.

Speaker 3: I think that's what guys need to know. And there's a parks and rec episode that we should put the link. Okay. I saw you for this phone. Isn't that? Isn't amazing. There's a, um, parks and rec episode that there's a little clip in it that I want to like put the link to or something on this, if we're allowed to. Yeah. But it is the best advice for men that I would ever give. And I don't know why it works. I don't know if it embarrasses me a little bit. This is, this is how the majority of women are, [00:48:00] but there's a character that's pregnant and she's just constantly. And it gets worse and worse and worse because her husband just keeps trying to fix it, you know, and saying like, well, maybe you feel that way because of this. Like, maybe you need this, like here, I got you the special water, you know, let's go on a walk like,

Speaker 2: And it's adorable and wonderful. And it makes sense. Let me fix this for you

Speaker 3: Even more. And finally they get the clip I want to play is his friends confronting him and saying, you need to shush STFU, you got to shut up and [00:48:30] you just have to listen. And then you have to nod your head and be like,

Speaker 2: Oh, that sucks. That must be terrible. And I

Speaker 3: Showed that clip, Tyler and I had kind of an argument and about like, you know, when we talk about things on, I ended up hurting his feelings, trying to talk about my feelings and it was just a mess. And I, I sent that clip to him and I don't know if it necessarily helped him, but it helped me realize what we need. Like, we don't need someone to fix it. We're awesome. Like girls, we really can't fix the majority of stuff.

Speaker 2: When did you say that? [00:49:00] Most of the time, we already know how to fix it. I already know. It's it's not that we need you to tell us. And it almost, I think when a guy tries to tell you how to fix something and you're like, yeah, no. I know that I'm telling you this to be

Speaker 3: off. Right.

Speaker 2: Because I have all these insane emotions that like, if I keep them in my, like the top of my head is going to blow off. So I need to tell them to you. And I just need you to go, man. There's two very funny supporting examples of what you just said about, you know, the guys being like, don't just, don't, don't [00:49:30] try to fix it. There's a Chris rock skit. And the bit is that, you know, when you're married to someone, you you've heard them say everything, you know, everything. They're going to say, you know what they're going to say before they say it. And one of the things that guys need to know is that when your, your wife or your significant other is, is about something to, you know, talking about something, all you have to say is, oh, what, what was so funny? God, of course now I forget the punchline, but it was like, like, [00:50:00] man, I told you she was a. And just like validated. Yeah. And now it's like, seriously, that brings you closer together than trying to tell her, like, here's a step-by-step guide of how to, how to manage your emotions around this person. No, all you have to do is agree with me and, and, you know, agree that this really sucks. And, and we're going to be so much cooler than,

Speaker 3: You know, a lot of women are shaking their heads right now.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Just agree with me and just be like, man, [00:50:30] just, I knew she was a.

Speaker 3: It seriously, I don't even know who did your

Speaker 2: Heart just light up.

Speaker 3: [inaudible]

Speaker 2: It's great. And then the other, um, the other little bit is a YouTube clip of this woman, just talking about this horrible pain that she's going through. And it just like her, her head just feels like it just robbing and throbbing and then the camera pans out. And there's a nail sticking out of her head. And the guy's like, I think all you have to do [00:51:00] is take the nail out of your head. And she's like, are you even listening to me? So it's not about the nail. No. Which kind of makes us look insane. But like we have this nail in our head and all we want to talk about is how helpful it is, but we don't tell us to take it out. Maybe there's something wrong with us too. I don't know, but yeah, that's excellent advice.

Speaker 3: I think that there is, I think women, we were created with just crazy heads. Like, like [00:51:30] my dad says be crazy because we really are. And I think it's just how we can handle it. I think like, I th I think that we're insane. I think women are nutty. Like you see a man who went on like a murder spree and you're like, ah, oh my God. He must have like, like what an insane, scary person, like, how did he get that low? Like what happened? And then you see a woman that went on a murder spree and you're like, oh God, like it's just a D yeah. It's like a different, like, she just [00:52:00] had a little, like, she might, she must've been a little hormonal and she was probably hungry. We are in,

Speaker 2: And she do like, if a woman does something insane, like what did her husband do to make her do that?

Speaker 3: Like yeah. Or not do

Speaker 2: That. Yeah. Our brains are different. I mean,

Speaker 3: And I think it's how we can, how we're able to roll with it that get, that makes a strong women. And [00:52:30] so I'm trying to learn, teach myself just to roll with it. And, and you know,

Speaker 2: Of getting older, do you, I mean, don't get me wrong. There's some things I don't, I don't know, a little bit sad, but some of it is

Speaker 3: The part that bothers me is the skin. I don't like the wrinkly, not going skin. And I notice it about younger women now as

Speaker 2: Either giveaway someone's age,

Speaker 3: It is. And you can't do something about it. You would have to be approved about life. [00:53:00] You couldn't go in the sun, you couldn't drink alcohol. You couldn't be around any type of smell, not enjoy yourself at all. Couldn't eat like fricking preservatives. Like you would really have to

Speaker 2: Lay down to sleep. Most of the time you would have.

Speaker 3: Yes. You would have to

Speaker 2: Face down in Ivy.

Speaker 3: Yes. Just the little

Speaker 2: Straw free for breathing.

Speaker 3: And then what's like

Speaker 2: Buying a silk pillowcase and I'm just like, nah, oh, for your hair, for my face. Just like, cause you know,

Speaker 3: I sleep on [00:53:30] my side here not to get tangley. I think it helps

Speaker 2: With hair, but I've also read that for skin. It's just that I'm just like, that seems like one step beyond what I'm willing to do to keep my skin looking. Don't do that yet. You're not. But the, but the wisdom that comes with age has been like incredibly free

Speaker 3: Really wise.

Speaker 2: Oh, stop. I think we all get wiser. Right? Cause you just sort of, you're like, oh, I'm not going to do that anymore. This feels better. This feels better. That's how I'm always like what feels better?

Speaker 3: This feels better. So here's something that I it's my new little goal to figure [00:54:00] out in my head is the whole gas mask scenario or analogy of, you know, in a plane, always put your gas mask on or in life, put your gas mask on before anyone else's, you know, fill your vase or fill your cup before you fill other people's. And that way you are full to help others. But so I just, I think it's a woman thing to think, like I can hold my breath for one more second. Just let me put this one more gap. Like let me put the gas masks on. I can hold my breath for five more seconds. I can hold it [00:54:30] for five more minutes. Like, yeah. And so, and it's hard not to feel selfish or like, you know, so today Tyler and I went and looked at a house. We are always looking at house exciting. Yeah. Well we always are. So I forget to be excited and interested.

Speaker 3: Sounds like sex life. I'd have to remember to be excited. So yes, we go and look at these houses. We looked at one today and Tyler's dying to be, to have land, to have a Creek and have, you know. [00:55:00] Yeah. And so I know that that's something that he wants and we are out there in this place was, you know, almost half an hour from our house. If you could drive at a good pace the whole time didn't get behind a tractor or something. And you know, we, we were talking about on the way home and I just, I'm trying not to be that people pleaser, because I don't think that pleases anybody. I think at the end of the day, nobody's happy. Nobody knows you. And you feel like because she lied all day. Right. So yes. And so we were talking about [00:55:30] it and I said, I don't want to be that far away from people.

Speaker 3: Like, especially girlfriends are such a big part of my life that now that I have these great ones, I don't, and I'm comfortable. And I re I like this little nest that we're in. I I'm scared to mess that up. Like the postpartum thing, I now truly feel like it's behind me, I'm off medication. Like I, I, I'm scared to rock the boat with that and to change lifestyles. And it sucked because I could tell you his end. He told me that he was really disappointed. [00:56:00] He was like, okay, like, yeah, I'm just disappointed. That's not what you want right now. And he wasn't a jerk about it. That's just what he said. And I can tell he was bummed. And I kept, I had to literally bite my tongue, not to be like, let's just move there. Right. To take it all back. So it's like, I put my gas mask on and it kind of feels sometimes, but

Speaker 2: Maybe with practice it

Speaker 3: Won't. Yeah. And we, we, we have, you know, I like her house now and we have a good life. It's just, what is that line between [00:56:30] like taking care of yourself so that others are happy? Like the whole, if mama ain't happy, nobody's happy is true. Cause like I said, we're crazy. And we make it known when we're not.

Speaker 2: Well, the problem is, see here's the problem with being a woman that doesn't put her gas mask on it, doesn't speak her mind and say how she feels about things and you know, speak up and put her voice out into the room. Right. And like, listen to me, look at me right. When you don't [00:57:00] do that long enough, the crazy accumulates and you can reach a breaking point that is really damaging to yourself and to everyone else. I mean, men certainly don't typically don't have this problem of maybe I shouldn't say that. You know, and like, are you really hurting anyone by, by speaking your truth? And by saying, you know what? I don't think that's going to be a great decision for me. You're actually preventing a lot of hurt. So it might be uncomfortable in that moment. You know? It's like, oh, I think I just disappointed him. [00:57:30] But ultimately now you're you don't have to be disappointed in the long run for the long-term. I think

Speaker 3: About that. I visualized us out there and Tyler doesn't want a sad.

Speaker 2: No, he doesn't know. And you'll find, I think you got to realize that you're going to find something that works for both of you because that thing exists. It's out there and you're going to find something that works for both of you and then, oh my God, how great that you don't have to suffer living somewhere [00:58:00] where you're not happy that it doesn't, it's not like conducive to your personal needs. You're allowed to have needs.

Speaker 3: That's that's tricky about being married is the, um, just where to live in general. Yes. I have friends that live, you know, all around the country, that one spouse just doesn't like it. Yeah. You know, and I just wonder,

Speaker 2: I know that a lot of people live in two different states because of, because they, each are like, this is my job is where I want to live. This is my job. This is where I want [00:58:30] to be. And they decided to stay together. But they're not really together. That is like incredibly common these days.

Speaker 3: It's okay for it to be really hard.

Speaker 2: It's I think the answer is different for every couple. And as long as you keep talking and you keep, you're going to find something that works for both of you, it's just a constant compromise. But I think the line is where it starts to affect maybe your mental health. Like if you live somewhere far away from people in isolated, [00:59:00] you know, like that word isolation, you're like, Nope, that's on my no list. I can't have that. So yeah, like being self-aware and talking and you'll guys will find, uh, you'll find a compromise where you're both happy,

Speaker 3: Mostly happy. You gotta be yourself. Oh yeah. My girl, my girl, Erin, who I'll also make listen to this, you know, she told me awesome advice. Um, we were just kind of talking her and I are both. We love people and we love [00:59:30] making sure that other people are happy. And we're both a little bit of a chameleon in groups of people like we're going to form to, with that group of people.

Speaker 2: Oh wow. I'll be loud. Yeah. It's a quiet. These girls are really polite. They're all probably going to talk about,

Speaker 3: I'm going to keep my mouth shut. And she said something really cool that I remind myself, I've even put on one of those little boards like that. You know, if you're a girl [01:00:00] you have to have, or you're a loser, the, um, the little, the, the, the velvet boards with the plastic letters. Yes, I have. You have one kind of deal. And um, and I put it, but she said, she was like, you've got to be yourself. Or nobody knows you that it's so bad. Would that be,

Speaker 2: These are not, these are behaviors are so like conditioned in this crazy way to like bend over backwards to make people happy that you do start to forget like an approval [01:00:30] basic truths like that. Okay. Well, in a, nobody knows you. It's a really hard

Speaker 3: For someone not to like you, but I know, you know, yet you do. I feel good. You don't feel

Speaker 2: Like you have to

Speaker 3: Be different around me right now. Not you. Cause you like,

Speaker 2: You make me laugh. You make me laugh. You make me laugh. You're so much,

Speaker 3: You talked about your nipples within like five seconds of us meeting. And so I felt like, all right, we're under the class already, but I did. But I mean, I mean, that is joke, but also that you were open. [01:01:00] And so like, it's just, it's not,

Speaker 2: It's more fun to be open. It's really easy to be yourself. And you just weed out the people that you don't really want to be around. Anyway. That's how I feel. And I, and I guess, man, I think I take after my mother, I am not a people pleaser. Uh, I I'm a, I'm like a, I made a commitment. So I'm going to do this for this person. Cause I said, I would. So I'm not, I'm not a

Speaker 3: Good human,

Speaker 2: Right. But I am not like, man, if I did that, it would really ruin my day or make me uncomfortable. But it would make them happy [01:01:30] not going to do it because I just don't, I don't enjoy pleasing people in that way. It takes so much out of me and I, I enjoy pleasing myself and I've been so much happier since I decided to do that. And I'm surrounded by people and interact with people

Speaker 3: By choice. I think that's why people are happy around you. It's easy to be happier on

Speaker 2: And a happy person because I love who I'm talking to. I love the people that I've decided to keep in my life and I don't miss the people that I decided to [01:02:00] kick off.

Speaker 3: Yeah. You probably don't even remember. Nope. You might remember a couple that might've burned you, but that's the only reason you made the mighty left little scars or something besides that it's like right.

Speaker 2: And I'm really glad I don't have to talk to them anymore. Yeah. If you could pick someone's mind to read in your house, whose mind would you out of four of

Speaker 3: Us or the three, uh, sweet ties. I'd want to read ties. I think he is straight out of like a romance novel or [01:02:30] so I don't know about, so Jessica and Kayla, my Outlander girls, anybody who watches Outlander, Tyler is Jamie where he is just Tyler's genuine gold is to just make sure that I'm happy. Like it took me a lot. Like it took a few years, actually, God, it took me like eight years to realize that it wasn't just something he said, or like, no, I want you to be happy. Like that is his fricking goal and it's beautiful. But it's also like, like I told him today, I was [01:03:00] like, please be sure to make yourself happy too. Like I, you know, I, I can take care of myself. I need you to, but I can take care of myself. Like, please don't be afraid to hurt my feelings. You know what I mean? I need to actually say those exact words to him. And I think women all need to say that to their husbands maybe. Yeah. And vice-versa is like, I would want to pick his brain to be like, how do you like, are you really okay watching four seasons of Outlander and drinking Chardonnay? [01:03:30] Like, do you actually want to do that?

Speaker 3: Like

Speaker 2: If you don't, I'll just do it by myself. It's fine.

Speaker 3: And like, do you want, like, I know he doesn't want the dog. He's not, but like, do you really want to just, is this really the life that you want? Because he would do, he would do anything fruit, but I kind of do like, it's okay to be scared of something that they want that you [01:04:00] don't want. But I just, I would love to actually read his mind. I think I know, I know most of the time, but I think I would want to read his and my dog. I love my dog. I love my dog.

Speaker 2: There'll be like three or four thoughts rolling around probably in the dogs side. And they'd all be very sweet. What do you think about when you're bored and your mind is free to wander? Like what buzzes in the periphery of your thoughts? What do you love to think about when you have nothing else to think about? [01:04:30] What interests you? What, like what do you, where do you find yourself going when like you have a second to breathe?

Speaker 3: Yeah. I always, when I have a second, I think about what I would do with my free time. And then it's kind of funny because I used my free time's up. Like, you know, I fantasize about like having the house to myself, to like fold laundry and drink wine by myself and watch, you know, watch, you know, watch out, watch out. But I season [01:05:00] out right now or something I don't, I'm only on season three. Don't ruin it. Don't say it. Did you read the book? Yeah. So good. Just Scottish passion. So good. But um, yeah, I think, I think I tend to, um, think just kind of daydream about things that would make me really happy instead of just going and doing them. So I need to do that. And I think about my kids a ton, I worry. I mean, oh my God, hashtag

Speaker 2: I don't think we can ever change [01:05:30] that. I don't think we can ever always be something to worry.

Speaker 3: Yes. So, um, I just, I think I worry, I think I need to worry less. What about you? What's in your perfumes? Well,

Speaker 2: Like on when I'm alone and I don't have anything that I have to be doing, which I know is going to be a total like fantasy. Once I have a second child, I will not have free time. The way I have it now don't say

Speaker 3: That.

Speaker 2: Well, maybe not for a while. [01:06:00] Maybe not for the first year.

Speaker 3: No, don't say that. I think you should just do what you want to do and ask for help. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So I, I I'm like fascinated by like design and now that we have are building a new house, I'm like even more kind of obsessed with it and I love beautiful things, love beautiful things. And I like every time I walk into a room, I not every time I either really admire what I'm looking at or I redesign it in my head change, the wall color changed. The carpet changed the furniture. It's weird. [01:06:30] Cool. Yeah.

Speaker 3: So you would be, that's kind of what you do in your head.

Speaker 2: It's a, it's an utter fantasy. Like I think the reality is probably way harder than that. And working with people would be really unpleasant most of the time and it's expensive and it's there. You make a lot of mistakes and it's, it's a career that like at this point, I think I'm probably not destined for

Speaker 3: You just decided that you totally made that sound like a bummer. I did, but I,

Speaker 2: But I did choose a career that does fulfill me deeply and that's photography [01:07:00] and I, that, that brings, it brings the same level of like excitement in my body to do that. So I feel, I feel what's the word, like satisfied, fulfilled. Thank you. Fulfilled satisfied. It's a good one. Yeah. Um, but that's sort of like my fun, like hobby is looking at that kind of stuff and learning about it. It's just so interesting. My grandmother, mother and great-grandfather were all designers. So

Speaker 3: See it's in you. I see something in you that yes.

Speaker 2: [01:07:30] Towards, I grew up in my grandmother's, um, like design store.

Speaker 3: So like yeah. It's yeah,

Speaker 2: It feels cool. And I love it and it's just like a little part of myself that I, that I like having, like, it's my alone thing that I do. But, um, yeah. What do you think you're really good at when it comes to parenting and when it comes to being a wife,

Speaker 3: Being a mom? I think somebody told me a few years ago that I was too nice to my kids. And [01:08:00] it's like, no, I'm not. I, I'm not a pushover. Maybe. I mean, I'm as much as a push. I think I'm, I think I genuinely like my kids

Speaker 2: And I like being nice to them. I

Speaker 3: Like being nice to them and like telling Grayson that she's the most beautiful girl that I've ever seen in my life. And that Riley is, you know, the smartest cutest boy in the whole world. And I just, I, um, I might be enforcing some gender stereotypes, [01:08:30] but, but I just, I, I think I'm really good at just over loving them a little bit. And anybody that judges that like fine go home and slap your kid again, but I'm not going to do that. Actually don't do that. I don't want you to do that, but I just, I'm not, you know, I love how you

Speaker 2: Just were like, Nope. I mean, you just let that roll right

Speaker 3: Off your back. But it bothered me. I was like, not nice to my kids for like a week after that, but you know, what the hell is wrong with me, but I think I'm [01:09:00] really nice to my kids as a wife. I think I'm working on that. I don't, and that's one thing I really can't think of something I'm good at which, which I'm going to work on. Like, I don't think ask Tyler today. Okay. You should ask him. It'd be a fun conversation to have, because I want to be a good wife. I think I'm a pain in the, but I think it turning into a healthy pain in the, right? Like

Speaker 2: Something very well for him to make your happiness his priority. I think that in and of itself shows me that [01:09:30] you're

Speaker 3: Just a, you're

Speaker 2: A great partner that he doesn't want to.

Speaker 3: He's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. He's awesome. He, he is exactly what he seems like in all of his workout videos and all his happy little posts. It's like, that's really how he feels people. And it is that of noxious. It's really, that's awesome. But yeah, I, I want men and women or women and women, men and men, whoever is out there together, like please [01:10:00] like hurt each other's feelings, respectively for the greater good of your total self. And if you're scared that if you say a certain thing or act a certain way, that's yourself, that they're going to leave, then they should. Right. You know, because right. It's, it's it shouldn't take just your life. Shouldn't be like that. And so be happy and be yourself and you can be happy and talk to people if you feel sad. That's I

Speaker 2: Would agree with that a hundred

Speaker 3: Percent postpartum [01:10:30] joke. Oh, my favorite thing about what they were thinking about postpartum is that I like please remember women that it's something physically wrong with you. It is not that you can't, that you couldn't handle it or that you are not a good mom and you weren't meant that you weren't meant for it, or you forgot to read the books or that you're just too tired or you're not a good wife or you're not in shape enough to do it. Or you're not pretty enough to do it. Like the sadness that [01:11:00] seems like generally starts to just become with, after you have a baby, it is physically wrong with your brain. It's not, that can be fixed. Yes. It's answering wrong. It's like a broken arm. It's not the right. It's the exact same nothing you should try to hide. Would you ever try to hide a broken arm?

Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Never. You go get help for it. Exactly. So please treat it like that. Cause that's what it is. It's not that you can't handle it. Right. It's that you physically can't, you have no control over that. Right. And you shouldn't have to live with it. Yeah. And [01:11:30] there are people out there to help you. Yeah. Well that's great. Thank you for a beautiful interview. I knew it was going to be good. Thank you. Felt really nice and natural. Yeah. Learning to dad with Katelyn and Sarah. Yeah. Hopefully more, more interviews with women to come. All right. Peace out bad.

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