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Learning to Dad with Tyler Ross 043 - Chris Larsen


Speaker 1: Tyler here with Chris Larson. What's up, man.

Speaker 3: Tyler. Great to be here, man. And uh, yeah, it's, you're in an area of the country that I love very much.

Speaker 1: I understand you've bicycled through here. Uh, more than once

Speaker 3: Yeah. Skyline drive. [00:02:00] I used to, I used to work out in that area, like on the 66 corridor, going out from, uh, the DC area to, you know, kind of what would you call it? Southern west Southern, uh, Western or, uh, the Northwestern tip of Virginia. I can't even think about how to say it. Um, but yeah, I would park and I would go ride up that first part of skyline drive. Um, and just, just a gorgeous, gorgeous part

Speaker 1: Of the country. It's incredible though. You're in Asheville and I right Asheville, south, uh, North Carolina. I, I haven't been there since [00:02:30] I was a little kid, but I understand that that is a hot spot to be. It's just gorgeous and great scene.

Speaker 3: Yeah. We're very, we're very blessed. We're very blessed and it's a wonderful place to raise a

Speaker 1: Family. How long have you been down there?

Speaker 3: We moved here in 2008. So it's almost 14 years. Yeah. Had both our boys here. Yeah. Um, been through, uh, kind of wrapped up one of my careers and you know, started started another business. My wife's an architect, uh, here in town, so yeah, it's, it's been, it's been wonderful. We have, [00:03:00] we have nothing but wonderful things to say about the area.

Speaker 1: Wonderful. I'm I'm excited to come down there and visit sometime and check. I, I love come on down. I love real estate. I want to check out the built more and I understand that the restaurant scene is pretty good down

Speaker 3: There. Oh, it's so good. And we got two Airbnbs Tyler. So we got, do you really? We got places to,

Speaker 1: Yeah. If, if I end up coming down there and drag my kids down there, we'll stay in one rare be of bees and you can take us to the best spot to eat down there. Deal. Cool. I dig it. So Hey [00:03:30] cheer. <laugh>

Speaker 3: That? No, that's crazy. Look at that. Cheers.

Speaker 1: That's not peach pair. Is it?

Speaker 3: It is Poland moose.

Speaker 1: Ah, okay. Oh, pitch pair. <laugh> we weren't doing exactly. Get the same memo, but

Speaker 3: We were close. It's close enough. Yeah, <laugh>

Speaker 1: Close enough. So, um, just to get, kind of get rolling a little bit, like if, if you're at a cocktail party and somebody says the, the classic question, Hey Chris, what do you [00:04:00] do? Like what's your, what's your chamber answer for that?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so I, I used to say, um, I, I work in the medical device field. I sold medical devices. I worked for a big company called Medtronic for, for more than a decade. Um, and over the last year I formally left the med device industry. And now what I do, we, we basically have a private equity group and we buy real estate. So we bring in, you know, formally, we, we say we syndicate real estate. So we're buying big real estate deals like apartments, self [00:04:30] storage units, uh, mobile home parks, um, that sort of thing. But I I'd love to talk about that. Cause it was a big shift in, in identity going from, you know, a w two role where you're like, Hey, I make all this money and I do this thing. And now I don't even know. I don't really know what to say. So I've had to refine that over the past year here. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So to, to, so I wanna, I wanna hone in on a word syndication quickly because yeah. For as long as I've been in real estate, I've, uh, it doesn't seem like a word that's commonly used and you even flirted with [00:05:00] that when you said, you know, you started to shift, tell, tell me about syndication and your shift away from syndication.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, so, so we've been syndicating deals for about six years now and what a syndication is, if you're listening, you're like, I've not heard this term before, or you've heard like, uh, you even TV, like they syndicate TV shows mm-hmm <affirmative> there it, the word's thrown around there, but it, what it simply means is we bring in investors alongside of us and we buy apartments. So we're taking a, we're taking an apartment building, we're [00:05:30] putting it into an LLC. And then we're allowing members investors to come in that LLC and basically purchase that building alongside of

Speaker 1: Us. So you, you make the acquisition up front or at least get it under time, contract up front, and then you pitch it to your investors, uh, via some sort of like private placement memorandum and that you already have. And it's probably a series of investors that you've used before. And as you that's exactly right. Okay. And then are you, you? Yeah, that's exactly right. Do you kind of go to like a five to seven [00:06:00] year hold or is it kind of, you know, based on what the market's doing, how do, how do you manage that?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so our general strategy, Tyler, we go in, we find we're, we're, we're all over the country. We have five people in our acquisitions team. Um, we, we love the Southeast and we, you can talk about kind of, you know, why we moved here and, and why we like this area. Um, but you know, markets like the Carolinas, Florida, Texas, Georgia, Atlanta, um, go Braves by the way. <laugh> my boys down there to the, yeah, [00:06:30] we got to go to, uh, to one of the games, but, um, awesome. Yeah. So we, we find an apartment that we wanna buy. So we find a complex that we wanna buy. Let me see if I have one, I can kind of show a picture of, um, you know, so we say, okay, this, this makes sense. This is a property in, uh, just outside of Houston, Texas.

Speaker 3: We say, all right, this makes sense. You know, we like the area it's growing. There's a lot of other factors that we want. Um, we, we either talk to a [00:07:00] broker real estate broker, just like if you're buying any other property or the, or sometimes even owners directly. And what happens is we, we make an offer that works for us. And about 98 times out of a hundred, we get a no. And somewhere between one or two times out of a hundred, we get a, yes, that makes sense. And at a 400 to 500 deals, we're gonna underwrite this year, our team, um, we'll make about eight acquisitions. So, you know, uh, seven, eight acquisitions total. So, um, [00:07:30] once we figure that out, we got something under contract that's when we go to our investors, we say, Hey, Tyler, we have this deal under contract.

Speaker 3: If you're interested, I, um, we put together all the information. We typically have, uh, a general informational, um, announcement that goes out. Then we have our formal investment offering, which I was just showing you there, we do webinars. And then as we, you mentioned a PPM, so a private placement memorandum. Um, so that is really kind of the final legal document that we prepare. We see the new investors [00:08:00] that formally, uh, ask to invest with us. And then once they review that investors get to review that they sign it, uh, talk to their advisors, then they fund the deal. We take that money, we fund that LLC. And then we go and we close. We buy that property. And then that's when the fund really starts. Cause then we gotta operate it. And we actually gotta implement a business plan then to make money for investors and investors get to sit back at that point and they get to be passive. And that's when, uh, they get their, uh, their dividends that start coming in.

Speaker 1: Awesome. Awesome. So when, when you're [00:08:30] looking at deals, are you looking, is it purely metrics driven because you're, you're in different jurisdictions? Like, so I'm gonna ask a second question. How do you get comfortable in that jurisdiction?

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really, and I talk about all these things in my book, which I'm happy to share, um, with you, if you're listened today, um, it's on my website next level income.com, but, and

Speaker 1: It's a free, free download, right?

Speaker 3: Abso well, not only is it a free download, but if you're listed in, if you click on the book link and put your address in, I'll send you a free copy as well. Oh, excellent. Very cool. Yeah. [00:09:00] Yeah. But, um, so yeah, we talk about, um, in my book, I kind of drill down into all these different things and yes, I'm, you know, I'm an engineer by training. So I went to, went to, uh, school to be an engineer, but I always joke. I said, oh, wasn't I wasn't smart enough. And my advisor told me I had too much personality to be an engineer <laugh> so I should, I should do something like sales. So here I am. Right. But I I'm still a numbers guy. Um, the Southeast works because of the demographics. So let's, let's [00:09:30] not treat it like Chris Larson treats a spreadsheet and looks at this.

Speaker 3: Let's just take it from a really high level. If you're listening, you say, well, where like, where should I buy real estate today? Really simple. You wanna buy real estate where people are moving. So why do people move to an area? They move to an area typically because of money. They either want a job where they can make more money. They want to have a lower cost of living where they can save more money or have more time with their families. So an area that's growing typically has [00:10:00] employers growing employment base. They have growing demographics, they have growing population and that's really the lifeblood of what we do. So we focus on these big markets. So let's say, let's say North Carolina, where, where I live, Tyler, I say, okay, North Carolina is one of the fastest growing states in the country. All right, that's good. Now we go into North Carolina and say, all right, what are the, what are the best cities in North Carolina?

Speaker 3: Some of the best fastest growing cities in North Carolina are Raleigh Charlotte Wilmington, Asheville [00:10:30] too. Asheville's a little small. So let's kind of shelve that for a second. And then we say, okay, what, which of those fast growing cities in this fast growing state have a nice employment base. So you take Raleigh. Raleigh has think about it. Universities. So people probably listening have heard of university of North Carolina. You have NC state, you have hospitals, you have, uh, Rex, you have WakeMed, you have these hospital employers that are there. You have the research try angle. You have all these different employers [00:11:00] and levels of employment that provide a really stable economic base in Raleigh. Also the cost of living is pretty reasonable. So we can go in there. And, you know, there are properties that are in the Raleigh area, um, they're between a thousand and $2,000 a month rent.

Speaker 3: So that might sound cheap to somebody that's in, in like San Francisco, California. It might sound a lot like a lot to somebody that's living in a very rural area of the country, for instance, but for us, that's a, that's a really nice sweet spot, um, when it comes to rents [00:11:30] and then we start to look for the properties that make sense for us. We wanna buy properties that are typically built in the last 20 years. We're buying properties that are what we would call B plus or a quality properties. So these are properties that are gonna have a little bit of a higher quality resident base. And what I mean by that is you have residents who have renters in that property that are making significantly more than the national average when it comes to a renter. So if you're, you know, your national average of income in a household is say 50 or $60,000.

Speaker 3: [00:12:00] Our average renters in our properties are, are oftentimes north of 80,000, sometimes even a hundred thousand dollars in these properties. And then once we've honed in on those, that's when you kind of alluded to this, Tyler, you have to develop the relationships because when you're buying a 50 million apartment, you can't just walk in and say, Hey, I'd like to buy this apartment and I'm gonna put a contract on it. What happens is the seller actually vets you and says, well, what are your terms? How fast can you close? What is your track [00:12:30] record? You know, what other, what other deals have you done? Um, let's look at your history of, uh, you know, bargaining like in negotiating throughout the process, you know, have you ever not closed on a deal? All these things matter a lot in these larger transactions. And oftentimes we don't have the highest bid on the properties that we buy, but we have the best combination of terms that we offer along with the price. Um, and only at that point, do you finally get to the stage where you can put an offer on a property, um, and ultimately tie it up on your [00:13:00] contract?

Speaker 1: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna lay out a suspicion and you can correct me or, or, or, uh, redirect me. So I listened to a, uh, presentation that Sam Zel gave, uh, it was an inter I think it was Andy Florence of co star and Sam Zel. Yeah. And, uh, Sam Zel was talking about how COVID had pushed a lot of people outta the inner cities, but he said, they're gonna come back. Offices are gonna come back and you want to know why the museum of modern art isn't going anywhere. So people like having those amenities around. [00:13:30] So when you're going for these B plus stay locations, uh, I was talking with my friends. I was watching it with, and we said, how do you, how do you, you know, acquire something with such a squished down cap rate? Um, and the ultimate thing that we came up with is you pay for it, cuz it's worth it. So when you're looking at things like that, I'd imagine that you're are looking at lower cap rates. So your business model [00:14:00] for profit is I guess, on a longer term with appreciation and it just kind of carries itself.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's a, that's a great question, Tyler. So cap rates move in a trend and that trend follows typically the 10 year note. So as rates have gone down, cap rates have gone down, okay. Capital chases yield. So if you look around the world, you have to say, okay, where where's capital coming from, where's it going to, and it's going to areas, um, of in investment areas that are, [00:14:30] are providing a yield that are providing a return. We're not paying a hundred percent cash for a per property. So if you paid a hundred percent cash, you know, your cap rate, if you have a five cap, for instance, for every hundred dollars you pay, you're gonna get $5 of income, right? So if you haven't heard cap rate before and you're listening, um, that's a really simple way. You take a hundred and you multiply it by the cap rate.

Speaker 3: If it's a 5% cap rate and you're gonna get $5 of cash, the inverse of that would be, if you have $5 of net operating income and a property at [00:15:00] a five cap, you divide it by 5% or 0.05, that's gonna give you a hundred dollars. So that's how you determine the value of a property. However, if you buy a property at a higher cap rate, so let's say you, you're looking at two properties, a 4% cap rate and a 6% cap rate the properties that are those 6% cap rates over the past year or two, they have had higher vacancy. They've had higher, no pays in those. They've had higher maintenance costs, higher amounts of capital that have had to go into those. So what that means is it's [00:15:30] like, it's no D friend than buying a residential property. You might say, Hey, this property costs $500,000.

Speaker 3: That one costs $400,000, but the one property is gonna take 50 or $75,000 to fix up the $400,000 property. If you're putting 20% down, 20% down on the, on great $500,000 house is gonna be a hundred thousand dollars. If you put 20% down on the $400,000 house, you're like, well, Hey, it's cheaper. You know, we can build [00:16:00] up some equity in that property. It's gonna take $80,000, which is 20% of 400. So it's gonna be 80,000 plus that's 75,000 to fix it up. I think that's the number I used earlier. Yep. So you say, yeah, but, but Chris, I have an extra 25,000 of equity, but if you add those two numbers together, that's $155,000 that you had to put down on that property. So you have to think about, you know, when some of these lower cap rate properties, um, the numbers [00:16:30] aren't necessarily in apples to apples can pay Harrison.

Speaker 3: You have to put more money down. You have to, or you may have to put more money down. You have to put more money into fixing them up, which means you need more money in reserves. You need a capital expense budget, which is gonna increase your original cost to purchase it. And then you might not get as much income out the other side because you know, we've seen 10% vacancy rates or, uh, no pay rates in some of these, you know, low, lower quality properties. So that's, that's part of the equation. The other piece of the equation is when you raise [00:17:00] the income of a property, $1 and a 4% cap rate property, you increase the value of that property. $1 divided by 4% or $25. If you increase the value of a six cap pro, and I'll just, I'll use my calculator here to make sure that I get it exactly right.

Speaker 3: You only raise the value of that property. $16 and 67 cents. So 25 divided by $16 and 67 cents. That's a 50% difference. Um, 50% [00:17:30] increase in cap rate, 50% difference in the value. So if you look at the income, the vacancy rates, the lack of pay, the increased capital, as well as the increased value on the other end of the spectrum, lower cap rates, it's a different equation, but it's not, it's not always in apples to apples comparison. So we take all those things into account. And what we love to have Tyler is we have high cap rates to start and low cap rates when we exit. But we, we don't, you know, fortunately we don't assume [00:18:00] that we, we make it work for investors, assuming we're not gonna have that, that great environment, but that's, that's certainly icing on the cake if we can do that.

Speaker 1: So you go from engineering at Virginia tech to sell metal equipment, uh, uh, medical equipment. And in, in between there, you had bought a, at least a single family or two, but then you managed to jump into these really significant, uh, multi-family investments that require millions of dollars. And the, uh, tell me about the first [00:18:30] one of those and how you got involved and what inspired the move to do that.

Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think, um, I think an important thing to mention is a lot of people ask me, Chris, when like, well, when did you start doing this real estate thing? And I always tell them, I started as an investor and needed a way to make money, which that's, that's how I found the medical device industry. I said, okay, I'm gonna buy enough properties, get $10,000 of cash flow coming in a month. And then I need to make enough money to pay these properties off. So that 10,000 [00:19:00] is gonna come to me. There's no debt service on it. There's no mortgages. So that was kind of my original plan. When I started, I always had this investor mindset and I, I kind of refined my, a strategy over the course of about two decades, um, buying my first property at 21, you know, it took me about 15 years to really figure out and optimize what I was doing on the real estate side.

Speaker 3: Um, but that first property, so my, my original partner and I, we were already investing in the space. So we started investing in apartments. And what I found was I [00:19:30] was manag J my own single family rentals. So condos and townhouses, and had a couple in Blacksburg. I had some in Northern Virginia, um, Richmond, all over Virginia. I kind of moved, uh, around the Virginia area. Um, and I was self-managing most of them. And what I found after about 10 years, a little more than that was that the equity that I had built up in those properties, the return on, in that equity was, was pretty low mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I was only getting about a 7% return on my equity, the actual capital that I had in those properties. That's not a great return. [00:20:00] Um, if you're listening and you're probably shaking your head, like I can do better than that.

Speaker 3: Yeah. You, you can <laugh> and the worst less trouble. Yeah. And the thing was, I was also paying tax. So when I, when I learned about a multifamily, I was introduced to it, uh, by a guy to meeting my, my wife and I were at together as we were helping her grow her business. I like, wow. Like the light bulb went off and as I learned more about it and the demographics and everything, I thought, okay, this is where I want to invest my money after investing for a few years, my partner and I, uh, we looked at the [00:20:30] people we were investing with and we said, well, geez, more experience than they do in the real estate space. So we ended up partnering with them on our first deal. It was a hundred unit property in Atlanta, Georgia, Atlanta mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, uh, um, it was, um, a hundred units.

Speaker 3: So a nice round, uh, nice, nice round number. We paid 9 million for that property, um, scraped together enough money to buy it from friends and family. Um, unfortunately again, we had had the original group we invested with to help hold our hands and kind of, uh, be aware of some of the pitfalls, [00:21:00] uh, that we should watch out for help set us up with the right management company, the right lenders, the right attorneys, all these sorts of things. And again, that's a, that's a huge piece of advice. If I might stop here for a second, if you were embarking on a new path, you know, and investing or anything else in life, find somebody to help you out, find a mentor, find a partner, find somebody that you can, you know, pay for a little bit of advice. So you avoid, you know, those big, those big pitfalls. Um, so we close on that property in August of 2016. So we're more than five years now into this. And, [00:21:30] uh, we're about to close on, I think it's our 15th, um, property here over the last five years.

Speaker 1: So that's awesome. Tell, tell that first one, tell me about how puckered up you were to get involved in buying a $9 million property. And at this point, do you have your boys at this point?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so my boys are, are about 10 and 12. They're gonna be 10 and 12 here. Um, depending on when this airs, uh, I split split the difference here, but my, uh, my son will be turning 10 here in the next month. So, [00:22:00] um, and then, so yeah, this was, uh, yeah, certainly had both my boys and, oh, by the way, I was working full time in a w two job. And I thought, okay, how, you know, I'm calling people that I knew that I had a relationship with, that I knew had an interest in real estate or investing. And, um, that knew a little bit about me as well, but, you know, I, I started making phone calls and I will tell you, um, now this is coming from somebody that's been in sales since I was 12 years old. I mean, selling, wrapping paper door to door, selling newspapers, [00:22:30] um, which

Speaker 1: They still did that for kids. It's such great learning experience. Yeah. We can't do that anymore, but yeah,

Speaker 3: Please continue. It's crazy. Um, but we have, we have some cool stuff that kids can do and that, uh, you can do as a parent, um, to teach kids about money. We have a nice, uh, nice kind of five step process that we can, we can talk about here in a little bit. Yeah. So I was selling, selling, selling. Now, here I am. I'm in my late thirties, I've talked and sold to hundreds of hundreds of people. And I was scared to [00:23:00] death to make that first call. And I'll never forget standing in my old office, in our old house in, uh, kinda a little bit Westy here, looking out the window, it, uh, November of 2015 and just thinking like, okay, you know, I gotta call this person. I gotta make this first call. And then I gotta make this next call. And I was just, I was, it was, I was scared of the unknown, you know, and that, that fear, that apprehension, that anxiety, it, it really, it comes from the unknown. And what beats that anxiety, [00:23:30] what I found was action.

Speaker 1: Uh, you were gonna talk about a five step process. I'd like to hear about that.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, uh, we got another, we got another, um, tool, so you can get, you get our book for free and I'll, I'll, I'll, we can share all this, uh, you know, with your audience. And we also, if you go to our website it's, um, I gotta, you might have to type this in next level, income.com/kids. Uh, it's called five ways to set your kids up for a lifetime of financial success.

Speaker 1: [00:24:00] Right. So, and you, I guess, is a practice that you've put into play and you work on with your kids, uh, and you kind of develop that.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, and I'll tell you what Tyler I'll, uh, I'll shoot it over here. So you can, you can take a look as we, uh, as we walk through this, and then you all, if you're list, then you can go ahead and download you. Got it. Uh,

Speaker 1: Is it slash [00:24:30] kid or kids?

Speaker 3: I'll uh, I'll send it right over here. It's probably send it to me. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, so it's, if you're listening again, you can download this and you can see kind of some of the steps that, that we have personally put into place for our two boys. So I think the first thing it's pretty obvious if you don't have a bank account for your kid, um, for your child, then go set up a bank account. That's step one. Um, talk to them about money. Start make, like, we don't, we don't [00:25:00] talk specifics with our kids. So if my son says, Hey dad, how much money did you make this year? I'm not gonna tell 'em, you know, if it was 150, $2,000 or whatever that number is, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, it might be 43,000. It might be 873,000. I don't have those specific conversations with my kids at this point.

Speaker 3: I don't think, um, you know, that's not, that's not necessary at this point, but we do talk about money. We talk about, you know, what it takes to buy their clothes, what it takes to go to camp. Um, you know, if we buy a car, you know, we talk about, [00:25:30] you know, the cost of the car and negotiating and, and those sorts of things. So we're not, we're not shy about having money conversations in our family. Um, once you have that bank account started and I, can I walk through kind of, um, the type of account you wanna custodian account, um, in, in the document, uh, the next thing you is, you have to have your kids use money. So we've set up a couple different things. Step one, is people like to call it allowance and allowance. Uh, we call it a salary. So our boys get a dollar [00:26:00] a day.

Speaker 3: It's really simple. So, you know, this, this month has, uh, what are we, what are we 30? Yeah, we're 30 months. So they'll get 30. Um, we have a ledger book. Um, I have a link in, in here to, uh, a little Amazon ledger. I, I wish I could reach out and grab it. It's downstairs. <laugh> um, with my boys right now, but, uh, it's just, it's a little accounting ledger and it's got a date it's got what, what that entry is. It has the amount, whether it's positive or negative, so we can put that amount in every week. And, oh, by the way, [00:26:30] if they leave the lights on, they leave the door open, especially in the winter. Um, if they, if they're disrespectful to their mom or they don't do something that they're, that they're supposed to do, you know, in their daily job, which is their responsibilities, they don't get their allowance that day.

Speaker 3: They don't get their salary that day. So we, we take that out or if they like, my son lost his, uh, hat last week, all right, he's gonna have to pay for that out of his, um, out his salary this month. And then every month, now this has changed a little bit during COVID, cuz you couldn't even go into the banks for a while. Mm-hmm [00:27:00] <affirmative> but every month or so, we'll go into the bank. And my boys, I pay them in cash a lot of times, just straight dollar bills and they get to deposit their money in their bank account. And that's where step three comes in. So we talk about how to teach kids how to invest before I go onto that, I do, I do dive into another level of paying your children and that is actually hiring your children for your business.

Speaker 3: So if you have a business, I highly encourage you. Once. They're about [00:27:30] eight years old, the IRS says children can basically be employed to do things they can, they can model for your business. So if you use pictures, like I have pictures all over our website, you know, blog posts, um, podcasts, those sorts of things. Um, you know, that's, you can compensate your children for that. Talk to your CPA. Um, we have company cars. Do you have your company cars washed? I mean, it costs a couple hundred dollars to have a car detailed. We have, we have buckets and hoses and soap [00:28:00] and, and vacuums. And my boys are very comfortable washing our company car and they can be compensated for that. We have Airbnbs, they help clean the Airbnbs. So these are just a couple things, um, you know, a couple ideas where you can pay your kids even above and beyond, you know, that quote unquote salary or allowance that they get.

Speaker 3: And there's some pretty cool things that you can do. So then how do you teach your kids about investing? You know, so you've had these money conversations, you got a bank account set up, they have some money coming into 'em, you know, they're they understand, you know, we don't have checkbooks anymore. That's why we got the accounting [00:28:30] ledgers. So I was like, I want, I want the boys to understand how to, how to account for money coming in and going out when we go to the bank, a really simple way for you to teach your kids about, about investing is if they put a dollar in the bank match, it just, just like companies do with the 401k. So if we go to the bank, our family rule is, is we, our goal is to save 50%. So if my boys get paid $30, they had a good month.

Speaker 3: And you know, they turned all the lights off and folded their laundry and you know, didn't, didn't raise their [00:29:00] voice to their mom. Then let's say, they say, all right, dad, I'm gonna put $15 in the bank. So I already paid 30, they put 15 in the bank, I'm gonna put another 15 in behind them. So now I'm in now I'm in for 45 bucks per kid, right? Yeah. But you know, we don't pay for good grades, which obviously, you know, families do that. That's something you could do. You can mix and match whatever makes sense for your family to do that. But that's a really simple way I found is to teach the boys the value of saving and investing because right now saving rates, you know, [00:29:30] interest rates are so low Tyler it's like, how do you teach the boys to invest? So that's, that's kind of an instant gratification way.

Speaker 3: And then the boys, they look at their own account statements. So sometimes I've had one of my sons put all of his money from his birthday, all of his money from his allowance, which I didn't plan on. Um, I had to, I had to take some money outta my back account. So I had, I had to match like a hundred dollars, but he wanted to catch up with his brother. So he's like, he's like, man, if I save, you know, I can, I can catch my brothers quote, unquote, net worth. Um, so I think that's [00:30:00] a really, what easy way, once you start paying your kids, looking to start in a Roth IRA again, in, in this document, next level income.com/kids. Um, I talk about how you can start a Roth IRA for your kids. Uh, Roth IRA is, um, it's a very flexible way where, you know, you can start in a custodial account.

Speaker 3: Um, let's say you let's say your kids are working for your business. They're, uh, you know, they're, you know, 10, 12 in their early teens, they're making say $500 a month. You can take that money [00:30:30] and you can have it direct deposited from their account each month into their Roth IRA. We use Vanguard and Vanguard has great options. You can put it automatically into one of these funds. It's like, uh, a target date fund. And now you get those statements that come in every month and you can show them what investing is. And my boys call it money working for you because you can see that money growing and growing and growing over time. Um, and now when they look at their invest accounts, their Roth IRAs, they see that they make more money from their investments [00:31:00] than they do from their, their salary, their allowance every month.

Speaker 3: And that that's pretty powerful. It doesn't take a lot of money at this age, um, to, to outstrip that. Um, so that's, uh, that's kind of the two levels of investing, um, that we, that we do. I also talk about starting a business. You know, if you wanna help your voice start a business, we started a jump rope business for the voice. Yeah. Um, where we were buying, uh, kind of the pieces and parts from China and the boys were putting 'em together and selling 'em at the CrossFit gym. Yeah. And I think our cost of acquisition [00:31:30] was, uh, it was like two, two bucks, something like that. Mm-hmm <affirmative> for a jump rope and they sold 'em for 10 bucks. That's a really nice profit margin. Yeah. Really nice profit margin. Um, and then the last piece of the puzzle is teach them the true value and also the cost of college.

Speaker 3: Um, I have a link to a great article that I read, um, college in a lot of, in a lot of like, if my boys say, you know, when I go to college, I, I say, well, are you gonna go to college? Like, what are you gonna study? Why do you wanna go to college? I think this is a really [00:32:00] important conversation to have. Um, the equation is chain changed over the last 20, 30, 40 years. And the math that we used to use when people say, well, when I went to college, you know, it I'm, I made more money and this, well, you probably didn't pay $50,000 a year for college 40 years ago. Mm-hmm <affirmative> the cost of college have risen astronomically compared to, you know, inflation compared to everything else. It doesn't make financial sense for a lot of people to go to college.

Speaker 3: And there's a lot of other options out there [00:32:30] that weren't out there before. Now. I'm not saying your kids shouldn't go to college. I'm not saying my kids aren't gonna go to college. I'm also not saying they are gonna go to college. What I am saying is you should understand the return on your investment in college and you should help your children understand that, especially if they're young and you start to educate them. Cuz what I would ask you is if you had a hundred thousand dollars and you were able to give that to your child, could they determine whether it makes sense to start a business, [00:33:00] invest that money or spend it on college. And the next question is, can you teach them that? So yes, that's the, that's the big piece I put, um, as the last of the five steps of teaching your kids about money and really turning them into money pros because if you can teach them how to calculate that return investment in their biggest initial, uh, financial decision that they're gonna make in their adult lives, you're gonna set them up for success. That's,

Speaker 1: That's really wonderful and exactly [00:33:30] why I talk to folks like you who are so deliberate in the way that they approach all of these things, but also willing to take a risk in their entrepreneurialism. And I want to kind of revert back to your working and profession and business now for a second and see if I can kind of peek behind a curtain a little, uh, I hope you don't mind because you've, you've sold medicals. Yeah. You sold medical devices. You you've done significant real estate work. Now you're giving away, uh, books and [00:34:00] uh, advice and writing blogs and doing podcasts like is th this is also a business. Like what made, what motivates you to do that business? And ha has it been, uh, what's the growth trajectory been like?

Speaker 3: Yeah. So I, I will say Tyler, I've been blessed, you know, um, you know, with some good decisions, um, some luck along the way. And I mean, we can all talk about, you know, the struggles we've faced. And I mean, I, I talk about a lot of those in my book, um, and, and how they shape me. [00:34:30] But the, the other side of that is there's, there's been a lot of good fortune and we're in a spot where, you know, I, I have the ability to, to spend time, you know, on, on things, um, like sharing this information. But what really, what really inspired me was it was probably about three years ago. So we had been, we've been syndicating, the real estate deals. We've been, um, you know, talking to different investors and as people learned more and more and more people learned about what I did, I got, I had people reach out to me asking for advice [00:35:00] and it wasn't, what should I invest in?

Speaker 3: And it was like, how do I get to the point where I can't invest Chris? I can't invest, I don't have $50,000 to put in one of your deals. Um, but I want to, how did you get there? How did you take those first steps? So I have a conversation. I'd write an email, I'd have another conversation. I'd write another email. That email was the same as the conversation had the week before. Yeah. And then it was every day, you know, it was first, it was once a month. Then once a week, then, then every day I was having these conversations and, [00:35:30] uh, my, uh, my, my marketing partner said, Chris, you should start a podcast. If you listen to the early podcast, Caleb was my partner. I was like, you should join me on this. He's younger guys, about 15 years younger than me.

Speaker 3: Uh, we race bicycles together. And I said, let's start a podcast to help educate people into how they can get to this point. And that's where the next level income make, keep and grow methodology came to be. So, you know, you kind of heard it. I was talking about, I, I talk about this with the [00:36:00] kids. Hey, how do you, how do you make more money, teach your kids about how to make money, teach your kids how to keep money, how to put it in the bank, how to save, you know, when it comes to adults, the key part is gonna be things like accounting strategies for, or tax strategies, um, insurance. So you don't get, you don't lose everything you have, cuz you don't have the right liability insurance or you know, like, like me, if your father dies, uh, at 41, when I was five years old, you probably should have life insurance to protect your family.

Speaker 3: These are really important things only [00:36:30] then when you've gone through those two steps, can you get to the grow part? So we talk about how to make, keep and grow your money. On the podcast. We also has started the blog and what I found was, you know, this, this education component, which is really what next level income blossomed out of was, was really a way to curate all this information that I'd learned. And you'll, you'll hear me say it. If you've heard me on other podcasts, you look at my book, my book, my website, podcast, or blog, you know, the, the five ways that you teach your kids or set your kids up for [00:37:00] a lifetime of financial success, all of these tools are to help you sh take the shortcut to get to the same place that I am. Don't take 15 or 20 years to get there.

Speaker 3: You can do it a lot quicker. Um, and I don't have it all perfectly figured out, but I will share with you all the secrets that I found along the way. And that's what really motivates me. Um, you know, now we've, we're doing a podcast every week. We're writing a blog almost, almost as frequently. Tyler. Um, I love being on shows like yours and you know, kind of cross pollinating, if you will. Some of the different [00:37:30] ideas and learning what other people are doing out there. Um, and then, uh, I, I did start, I did start coaching, uh, people as well when I left, uh, my role in the medical field. And the interesting thing was, I, I mean, this is, this is the God's honest truth. It's not for the money. I, I do charge for my coaching. Cause I think it, it actually makes it more, more, uh, impactful, but I did it because yeah, um, I realized that's what I really enjoyed the most in my career was helping mentor others that were coming up, you know, behind [00:38:00] teaching them the tricks of the trade. And I was like, you know what? I can, I can keep doing this and keep having that impact. It really

Speaker 1: Resonates with me a lot. And um, the way I might sum it up really quickly is like, I got my oxygen mask on and now I can help other people get their oxygen masks on. So that, that's why I'm doing this.

Speaker 3: I love that. And if you don't mind, I'm gonna expound upon on that please. Um, you know, people, I realize it it's, you [00:38:30] know, trying to achieve financial independence. It, it's kind of a selfish endeavor, right? You're like, oh, I'm gonna make enough money. So I don't have to work again. And I can do whatever I want. And if you think about it, that's kind of selfish. Um, a lot of things that allow you to be a better person and ultimately have an impact. If you take a step back, it seems selfish, like making as much money as you can seems kind of selfish. It seems kind. But if I said, Hey, I'm gonna take a day off. I'm not gonna talk to my, I'm not gonna do [00:39:00] a do any work. I'm not even gonna talk to my wife. My kids are gonna go to school.

Speaker 3: I'm gonna go out to dinner by myself. I'm gonna go to the spa. I'm gonna get a massage. I'm gonna relax by the pool. Um, man, I'm gonna go for a runner, a bike ride. I'm gonna totally relax, totally recharge. We call that self care, right? Somebody's like, I'm gonna take a self care day. You don't hear people going, ah, what a selfish jerk that person is. Yeah. But it's the same thing. You know, you have to have, you have to have good health. You have to have enough sleep. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you have to eat well, you have to [00:39:30] have enough exercise. All these things are really important. You also have to have good financial health, if you want to make the, a biggest impact in this world and do that. So when you say, yeah, you gotta put your oxygen mask on first. I mean, there is not a better thing to say, like you've got to focus on your own personal financial wellbeing before you can go out and make the biggest impact on the world and do that. And that's what really drives me. I think everybody becomes a better person, a more true to themselves person, um, with, with, uh, you know, financial independence. [00:40:00] There's also some bad apples out there that maybe they, you know, <laugh> um, but you know, that's gonna be, that's gonna be anywhere. You have drugs in, in sports, you have cheating. Um, you have the same thing in business, but, uh, that's, that's true. I think in the vast majority of people,

Speaker 1: Yeah. I I'm I'm feel know very similarly. Like I, I don't know what we're all doing here on this planet, this plane, this dimension, whatever, but at the very minimum where you could put us in buckets of producers and consumers, and if we're collectively advancing humanity, [00:40:30] we want it to be in a positive way. And I think it's the producers that are doing that at a higher level than are the consumers. So do you think that that's a, a learned thing or do you feel like you have some gene that's got your on switch kind of stuck on, on

Speaker 3: <laugh> I've never heard it put that way, but that is, uh, I've never put it that way. My wife would not argue with that. You know, my own, my own switch is [00:41:00] I think, yeah, it's like stuck like, uh, in, in hyper hyper mode sometimes. Um, and I've actually thought a lot about this. I mentioned my father passed away when I was young mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, I also lost my best friend in college, my right in between my freshman, sophomore years. Um, and what I realized was I had this like, um, this thought in the back of my head, I didn't, it wasn't even a thought. It was subconscious that, you know, [00:41:30] life is life is finite, you know? And when I was approaching 41 years old, two years ago, this wouldn't really hit me. I was like, wow. I was like, this is what I've kind of had my head down for.

Speaker 3: Um, losing my friend made it very apparent that life was not infinite, that your days are not unlimited, that they're numbered. And again, you could look at, at it from an engineering perspective, if you have the value of time and you look at it as an equation [00:42:00] and the number of days that you're gonna live are on the bottom of that equation. If you think that number is infinity, that value drops way down. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, we were talking about cap rates before, if that number goes was down to 10 days, if you had 10 days left to live, you would live much different. Yeah. And then here's the thing. There's somebody out there that is listening right now or, um, you know, going about their business and they only have 10 days left and they don't know that, you know, and, and [00:42:30] I don't know how many days I'm gonna have left.

Speaker 3: So I think those experiences and knowing that look, I have to make the most out of every day. And also knowing that I've been giving and given the gift of another day on this earth, that my friend wasn't given, I, I feel the responsibility to go out and do that. And now I think, you know, after experiencing what I've done and just seeing the impact and, you know, you get a couple calls where people say, Chris, you changed my life. And, and this is why, um, my, uh, good, really good friend of mine from college called me just [00:43:00] a couple weeks ago. And he said, Hey, I gotta tell you, um, because of the advice you gave me and these investments, I can quit my job. Yeah. And he's very high paid individual with, uh, a very well known company. Um, almost everybody would know if, if, if I said it and he just made some really good choices and over the past five or so years, he's made some very disciplined investments, just putting money in every year.

Speaker 3: And now that passive income that's coming in, supports him in his family. I said, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna [00:43:30] quit? He's like, well, I don't know. I might, you know, I might work like on a contract basis, but I, I want to, you know, these are the, I wanna volunteer. I want to spend more time with my kids. Um, we're, we're he and I are gonna be taking a trip together next summer. Um, you know, he, he gets to live a better life and he may not quit his job, or he may work a little bit less and I've heard it just over and over again, you know, from different people that have been very about their choices. Um, and if you, if you're conscious about it, you start [00:44:00] to think about it. Um, I I'm, I'm here to help you cuz that's what, that's what I really think. It, it just makes people, um, be able to live a better life. You

Speaker 1: Start appreciating that time, that appreciation and a sense of urgency combined. You can getting awful a lot done.

Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely. And it's not look, it's always a struggle, Tyler. I mean, um, I think, you know what, I'm what I'm talking about. I mean there's some days I get up and I'm, I'm, I'm just like crushing it. Like today I got up at three 30, it was wide awake and I [00:44:30] hit like mid, mid morning and I was like, whoa. I was like, I might need to take a nap. And I knew I had this podcast coming up, so I got, I got fired back up. Um, but uh, you know, and then there's other days where it takes, you know, I just, it takes me a little while to get going. So you gotta have that purpose out there kind of pulling you along. That's the big thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So, uh, your dad passed when you were five. Uh <affirmative> do you remember being told that?

Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember. Uh, so he, he, his, he was in a plane crash. His plane went down in lake Michigan. [00:45:00] Um, my, we grew up in, uh, Maryland. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> just, uh, just south of Baltimore and north of Annapolis. Um, or in between Baltimore and Annapolis, I should say. Um, and he decided to fly up to Wisconsin, asked him to see his parents and he was gonna take me with him. My mom said, no, Christopher's coming in the car with me. So we drove up, he flew up his engine failed about 10 miles out from, uh, the green bay airport where he, where he was flying into. And I mean, if you're 10 miles out in lake Michigan, you might as well be 10 miles out in the middle of the ocean. Right. Like [00:45:30] it's, you're, you're you, it's, they're called the great lakes for a reason.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, and I remember standing on the dock there, uh, with my mom kind of, you know, knowing what happened. Um, I don't remember all the details, but I do remember my mom telling me that when it happened, I turned her and I said, mom, it's gonna be okay, cuz you're fi you know, I he's with Jesus now. Um, and I, I mean, I have a lot of memories, um, of my FA not a, not a tremendous amount, but I do have a lot of memories of my father. Um, I have a lot of memories [00:46:00] of kind of the challenges that, uh, our family faced after, after losing him. Um, and it's, uh, it, it certainly makes me appreciate every single day I have with my voice that's for sure.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I was, I, it was gonna be a weird question, but I don't have to an ask it because you kind of answered it already, but my, my question was gonna be like, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but because it is real, like, yeah, what did you get out of it? What were, yeah. [00:46:30] Advantage is a weird word to use, but like what advantages did you have as a result of that?

Speaker 3: You know what, I'm, that's a very insightful question. And you're the first person to ask me that, cause I've had this conversation probably about a hundred times. Mm-hmm <affirmative> over the past few years and here's, what's interesting. So I'm, I'm a big fan of Malcolm Gladwell. He wrote outliers mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and I think it was, I think it was Malcolm Gladwell that wrote it. Um, and what he wrote was that there's this, this pretty [00:47:00] high correlation between people that lose a parent being successful. And he talks about presidents and you know, all these, all these historic figures. And, um, I remember reading that and just thinking like that's where I came. Like that equation came into my mind where I'm like, time is fine. I have times finite, you realize that the value of every day goes up, but it's just like the light bulb went off in my head and know I've had, I've had a lot of con you know, there's, there's a lot of political conversations that come out there.

Speaker 3: Um, and after the, the last, like the previous election, um, I was having [00:47:30] a conversation with, um, a, a friend's daughter who was a PhD student. And we were talking about, you know, kind of, you know, what, what you can do with public policy, how you can help different people. And we were talking about healthcare cuz that's what she, she was developing in technology, um, in healthcare feed. I I've been in that. And we, we were having a conversation about healthcare. Um, and she said to me during, during the conversation that, well, I had that view because, you know, I was basically privileged, you know, I [00:48:00] was, I'm a white male, grew up in a, in a nice area. Um, and I don't, I don't disagree with that. You know, you're look wherever you grow up, it's gonna give you an advantage or a disadvantage.

Speaker 3: Like we, let's just not argue about that. That's, that's, that's just the bottom line a hundred percent. Um, but my, my point was like, you can either make an excuse mm-hmm <affirmative> or you can, you know, look at where you are and you can move forward. And I asked her, I said, do you think it was advantage that I lost my father? Because she said in a really kind of, it was, it was kind of of a condescending [00:48:30] tone. Mm-hmm <affirmative> when, when she kind, she dismissed what I thought, because, um, of kind of my, my position. And she's like, I would never say that. I said, well, the research, the research contradicts you. Um, and it's, it's very, it's, it's not something you would ever wish on somebody mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I think if you're listening, you know, if you've lost somebody, you probably real lies that, you know, it, it changes you, especially if it's somebody that you had that was close.

Speaker 3: Um, but more than that, if we, if we, if we kind of step away from this conversation, [00:49:00] anything you go through in life, that's challenging, it makes it, it has the potential to make you a better person. And here's the thing. When I left my a w two role, I was so anxious, Tyler, I had the ability to walk away, never work again. We have plenty of money coming in and passive income. And I was so anxious and I couldn't figure it out. And I realized, uh, several things here over the past year, [00:49:30] but one of them is, unless we're being challenged, we're not fulfilled. You know, the majority of people you don't wanna be lazy. And I think I heard, uh, grant Cardone, talk about this with ed Mylet, ed Mylet, um, on, uh, on a podcast a few years ago. And he talked about depression coming from basically unfulfilled potential.

Speaker 3: I was like, wow, that is controversial and really profound. And I was talking to one of my coaching clients about just that, you [00:50:00] know, he's like, ah, he was just kind of like, I've been in a weird spot lately. And I said, well, are you working out? He's like, no, I haven't been working out. I was like, well, what about, you know, have you been on a date with your wife? And he's like, no, we haven't been on a date since we got married. He's got married here recently. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, it's like, well, what about he's like, well, I'm not doing it as well as I could in work. And I got this to doing that, to do. And he was basically telling me all the things that he knew he should be doing, but he wasn't doing. And I said, here's where you gotta start.

Speaker 3: You gotta start with getting back to your workouts, cuz you know, you should be doing that. Mm-hmm [00:50:30] <affirmative> and you know, you work out, you eat right. You save money, you make those investments. Instead of watching football on Sunday, you know, you read that, you read that book or maybe you watch the highlights or half the game, you know, maybe you don't start drinking at noon. You wait, you wait to have a beer at five o'clock on, on Sunday and you get a little bit done or, or whatever, whatever your life may look like. So I think, you know, when it, when it comes to the advantages that we have in life, you know, the bottom line is challenges have [00:51:00] the potential to make us better. And if you don't have any challenges, you need to find a way to expand, to grow, to change. And that's, that's what we're all meant to do in my opinion. And that's what really, you know, you, you have a, a terrific background to understand this Tyler, you know, when we're getting better, when we're working towards something, that's when we feel fulfilled, it's not just when we achieve that goal, it's the process of grow and building that makes us fulfilled.

Speaker 1: [00:51:30] Completely agree with you. Um, yeah. Jordan Peterson talks about just make your bed or pick up the heaviest thing you can and carry it and those things, uh, yeah, the challenges I enjoy. Um, yeah. I, I'm not sure how to ask this question yet, but I'm thinking of the role the, that your mom had to take on as, did you have any SIM, do you have any siblings?

Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a younger sister. She's uh, a little bit more than three years younger than me. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1: So how did, like, [00:52:00] if we were talking to, uh, somebody with a family that's, that's very much like our profile and they lost a parent. <affirmative> like, what is something that maybe your mom did as an example that you could offer that advice to, to somebody on the role that they need to be now for their kid? Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I think my mom, my mom was in a really challenging situation and um, she passed away about 10 years ago. Um, and she made a lot of mistakes and she did a lot of, a [00:52:30] lot of good things. And I think the thing that she did was she realized that, you know, as, as a single mother, she needed a support system for her kids. Um, we went to church, she played, she played piano in church. So I, I mean, I grew up, we go to church like three times a week and you know, whether you go to church, whether you were just, or not having that community of people surrounding you with a good value system is so, so important that friend with a daughter getting the PhD first off, he has [00:53:00] two amazing, brilliant daughters that, um, uh, I'm trying to remember if they both went to Ivy league schools, but one, one we were at her med school graduations.

Speaker 3: The, that tells you enough. The other is in Ivy league school, for sure. I mean just brilliant daughters, brilliant parents. Um, regardless of the conversation we were having, um, the point is like that was the type of person that was an impact on me. That individual introduced me to cycling that in individual gave me a money magazine that [00:53:30] talked about investing. Just the fact that we were in that community allowed me to have experiences that I wouldn't have experienced without having my father figure in my life. So I had these other father figures in my life. She also remarried. So when I was 11, she remarried, uh, my stepfather, um, and their relationship. Wasn't perfect. Um, if you're listening, your relationship's probably not perfect if you're listening, you're married my relationship with my wife. Certainly isn't perfect, but we know it's not perfect. And we work [00:54:00] on it all the time on a regular basis.

Speaker 3: Um, maybe not all the time, maybe that's probably the issue, but we work on it on a regular basis. So my point, my point being is, you know, she, she supported us in the community with a community. She supported us at home by bringing in a father figure that could be there. Um, and she kept us in the house we were in because that was in one of the best school districts in not only the county, but also the state mm-hmm <affirmative>. And she also helped [00:54:30] instill values. So saving. I remember she I'd save, I was always kind of a saver, but she'd take my dollars and she'd put 'em in the bank without me knowing it. And I was like, well, that kind of stinks, cuz where's my money. But she, she, she helped me learn the value of saving cuz then she's like, Hey look at how much money you have in the bank when I wanted to, um, you know, buy something.

Speaker 3: Um, she also supported me in, in sports and other things like that. Um, and then she also, uh, helped in, in instill really good study habits and those sorts [00:55:00] of things. So again, um, my childhood was, was far from perfect. Um, we struggled a lot in, in a lot of different in areas, you know, financially, um, just emotionally with a lot of things, you know, that were going on. Um, and you know, my parents weren't always able to be with me because they were, they were both working. Um, and I mean the first year I was out in this professional, I made more money than either them ever did. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so, you know, I, I, I certainly didn't grow up in some, um, fairytale upper middle class environment, [00:55:30] but you know, if, if you know, whether you're, whether you're a single parent or whether you're listening, you have, you know, tremendous, um, you know, partner that you're, you're raising kids with. I think making sure you just have those fundamentals in place, uh, really just helps give your children that much more of an advantage in life.

Speaker 1: So you, uh, you've had some high level athletic, uh, endeavors, particularly in cycling. So I, I want you to briefly tell me kind of what [00:56:00] your cycling history is and more importantly, how that has informed your being a parent for both the better and the worse.

Speaker 3: That is a wow, that's another great question. Um, and I think just because such a big part of my life is being a parent. Now, Tyler, we're talking a lot about this. Um, it, it's nice to relate these experiences. So I started racing when I was 14 years old. Um, I, I was state champ at 15. Um, I've been all American, uh, been to been to the Olympic [00:56:30] training center, raced in the junior Olympics, train trained with Lance Armstrong. And my team went pro, but I'd quit right before my team went pro big reason was cuz my, my friend had passed away. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I lost, I lost my passion for cycling. And also I knew, I knew I was met for more. Um, but the other part of it was, this was in the late nineties and I had friends going over Europe that were better than me and they were coming back and they were quitting because of the drugs and the sport.

Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Um, and I always say I was really lucky because I wasn't good enough to have to do drugs. And what [00:57:00] I mean by that is I got the fit of getting all the good stuff out of the sport. I got the discipline, I got the comradery, I got the community, I got the health. I didn't have the dream that was shattered because I couldn't achieve my dream. Cause I didn't want to do drugs. I didn't, I didn't have to do drugs so I could choose not to do it. I walked away from the sport, uh, and it, through as I went through life, I kind of alluded to this earlier. I [00:57:30] realized that whatever you do, there's gonna be somebody out there. That's gonna wanna take a, a, a shortcut. That's gonna wanna cheat. Um, I had a neighbor's father say to me one time, he's like, oh man, cyclist are the dirtiest athletes out there.

Speaker 3: I looked at him, I pulled the keys to my, my car that I was standing in front of, out of my pocket. And I said, I'll tell you what, if you can look me straight in the eye and say that you think professional cyclists that are tested anywhere, anytime, all around the world, having their blood taken are dirtier than professional [00:58:00] athletes. Like, I don't know, like NFL players or, um, pick a where they have almost no testing whatsoever. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I said, you can have my car. If you can look me, look me dead in the eye and say that. And he kind of shook his head and he said, that's a good point. And my point in saying that is, we're never gonna get rid of all the cheaters we're not ever gonna get rid of all the, all the white collar crime or, or all the, you know, the people that are gonna screw you.

Speaker 3: And I've had some, I've had some, uh, experiences [00:58:30] in business like that. Um, but I want my children to understand that yes, sports are important. I want them to pursue their own passions. My, my boys love lacrosse and soccer. They do like cycling as well, but are not pushing them to become cyclist. I want them to pave their own way. So importance of sport, importance of pursuing the things that they're passionate about. And finally the knowledge that, Hey, the important thing is you do your best. Yes. [00:59:00] I think it's important to win and, and, you know, go for that goal. But the real thing is it's important to do your best cause when somebody beats you, whether it's fair or unfair, there's, there's more to life than just winning. And if, if I can instill in them the desire to win, but the fulfillment from doing their best, then I'll, I'll be very proud of myself. Do you, do you coach your kids? Uh, so yeah, actually, um, we started a cycling team at my older son's school. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, it's a, NAICA part of the NA league, um, across the country. Um, [00:59:30] so I'm a, I'm a coach with, with that team. I've also coached on their soccer team, assistant coach. I like to be the assistant coach. Um, cuz I, I wanna, you know, I want to kind of let somebody else, um, go do that.

Speaker 1: <laugh> I'm with you. I, I <laugh> part of the biggest problem my dad and I ever had was probably a result of his coaching me. And then when he quit, we quit, we quit that and then we came together closer than we've ever been. Um, so <laugh> yeah. I try to keep my distance with the kids, uh, [01:00:00] teaching. So, so you've got an awful lot going on, uh, between work and family. What are some of the habits or disciplines you've instilled to maintain some sort of life balance and counterbalance?

Speaker 3: Yeah, well certainly being able to walk away from a w two role where, I mean there were years, there were weeks I'd work, you know, 80, a hundred hour weeks. Um, there were months I'd work straight without a day off. I mean, I, I have so many memories of like rushing home. Um, I was cooking dinner one time and I got a [01:00:30] call from the, the, or it was emergency. Um, somebody had a broken, uh, neck, I believe it was. And they needed one of our products and I literally left, uh, you know, a chef's knife and all the food on the counter and, and ran out the door as my wife was coming in with the kids. And I said, I said, don't let 'em in. There's a, there's a knife on the table. Um, so not having to, you know, be a slave to other people's schedules certainly, um, helped.

Speaker 3: Um, so it's, it's interesting. We have a bit of a dichotomy in that. You know, we spend a lot of time with our boys in the mornings and in the evenings they [01:01:00] go to school. So my wife and I are still able to accomplish a lot during the day. And we actually hired a nanny to help out with the shuttling, the kids around the afternoon. Um, and it was a struggle. We both wanted to spend that time with the boys. Um, especially cuz we both have the flexibility to do that. But what we found was giving those three hours to the boys to get from school, give them some downtime, go to sports. That means I can take a sauna. I can cook dinner for my family. My wife can [01:01:30] go out with her friends if she wants. So when the, when the boys come home and we have family time, we're not, we're not tied up over the, the bickering that we saw in the back seat of the car.

Speaker 3: You know, we're not rushing to, to try to make a quick phone call or answer some emails before dinner or have to do that after dinner. You know, we have this really dedicated time. So my point is, you know, we have family time blocked out in the mornings, in the evenings, on the weekends. We also have time blocked out for ourselves. Tyler. So as we talked [01:02:00] about that self care, so whether that's me going for a bike ride, my wife went out with some friend, um, for, for dinner. Um, you know, that's so important. So block time out for yourself, block time out, um, for you and your partner and block time out for your family. That's unadulterated. That's super important. I think,

Speaker 1: Yeah, I I'd have a couple of non-negotiable things, but I like that idea about I'm gonna circle back to grant Cardone. I've heard him say that when I'm with my kid, I spend a hundred percent at the time with my kids. It's like, he's a hundred percent engaged [01:02:30] in whatever it is. And if you don't have those, uh, inputs of your kids bickering in the backseat, the quality of that time does change. So I might have, have to have a conversation with my wife about how we manage all of that. Cuz those things are definitely like the chipping away at you all day and yeah,

Speaker 3: Yeah. It's uh, no, it certainly makes a difference and I think, um, yeah, the more pur time can be and, and directed. And that means, that means the phone goes off. You know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> when I, when I leave the office at five and turn the phone on off and go take a [01:03:00] sauna, like I'm not answering the phone during dinner, phone's upside down, it's off mm-hmm <affirmative> um, if you can't do that, if you're on call, if you have other, other things that are doing pick time, find, find your time, you know, make it a Saturday morning, whatever it might be, you can, you can, uh, certainly carve it out no matter what your circumstance I've been there. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So I I've not, I don't think I've ask you a single question that I have on my list of questions. <laugh> um,

Speaker 3: This has been awesome conversation.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we could do 10 hours of this. Um, but I I'll kind of [01:03:30] get to the que the standard questions that I ask everybody. And uh, if we got more time, we'll, we'll keep rolling. But if not, I want make sure that we get these kind of fun ones in. Um, so we, we hardly even talked about parenting. Um, but the, uh, what's actually, yeah, let's ask this one. Uh, what's an advantage that you had growing up that your kids do not have.

Speaker 3: I think that hardship, you know, when you, you know, kids, so [01:04:00] my wife, uh, live more of an upper middle income lifestyle. Her father, uh, was, um, like an upper manager, you know, her mother never had to work cuz they made a lot of money or he made a lot of money. They lived, you know, really nice homes, nice neighborhoods. Um, you know, he, he bought her a Jeep when she was young. What I found was when simple hardship started to, uh, occur in her life, you know, like she lost somebody or something happened. It was, it was a bigger, it was a bigger challenge for [01:04:30] her to overcome those things. Um, and again, this goes back to that prior conversation, I think just those, those little struggles that you have, you know, it's like, okay, my mother, my grandmother made my clothes, you know, we ate, we ate vegetables outta cans.

Speaker 3: We didn't get 'em from our, our garden or whole foods. Right. Yeah. You know, my kids don't have to think about money, so that's a blessing. And it's also a challenge that has to be overcome if you're listening. You're like what, you know, listen to this guy complaining about, you know, these things. I think that it, [01:05:00] my work ethic from the desire to have the ability to do the things that I was not able to do as a child, like take nice vacations, you know, have buy clothes off of, you know, a rack or in a store. I, I tell my wife, one of my proudest things in my life is that I can tell her to go to whole foods and she doesn't have to ask any, like ask me how much she can spend any of that. She wants to go to whole foods or out to dinner with her friends. She can do [01:05:30] that. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And to me that is, that is, you know, it's an amazing thing to be able to offer to my family. Um, but it's something that my, my, my boys probably take for granted. And that is, that's something that, you know, you have to consider as you, uh, become more financially successful.

Speaker 1: How, how so do you find yourself like manufacturing hardships for your kids or manufacturing challenges to make them more resilient?

Speaker 3: Uh, I don't, but that's where I think sports is so important. [01:06:00] Um, and also, uh, like we talk, we do, we do talk like they have friends that have different economic situations than we do different financial situations. Um, we have those conversations, we talk about like, Hey, why does you know, why does your friend live in an apartment, you know, with their, with their three siblings and you know, and their mother, like this far away from the city, um, you know, why, why are we able to do this? They understand where, where the money comes from and those sorts of things. Um, but they also [01:06:30] like we, our clothes wear hand, our, my kids do wear like hand me down clothes, you know, from our friends mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, if they lose something, they have to, they have to take their money and buy it.

Speaker 3: It's not like an unlimited, you know, pot of money. Um, they have an Nintendo switch, a gaming system, they bought that with their own money. I didn't give that to them. Yeah. Um, so we, we, we do things to make them appreciate that, uh, the sports, the hard work, like they're expected to work hard. Um, we put my older son in a school as a very rigorous academic pro <affirmative>. Um, [01:07:00] you know, we, we try to push our children in areas that we're able to, um, not to necessarily manufacture challenges, but to give them the appreciation of, of what they have. And also the hard work that it takes to, to get, you know, the most outta his life. And

Speaker 1: It reminds me recently that Shaquila and Neil told his son, uh, oh no, we are not rich. I'm rich. <laugh> Ooh, I like that. I thought that was pretty good. Yeah. So, alright. I'll get to what I call the rapid fire questions, but we, we, we go on, so yeah. [01:07:30] Uh, money's no object time space. Reality's no object. If you had an opportunity to give a gift to every single father on the planet, what gift would you bestow upon those fathers?

Speaker 3: Well, I, I found myself thinking about like, you know, what, what physical gift would it, what it would be, but it immediately went to, you know, it, it went, it goes to [01:08:00] the time. Yeah. And the gift I, I would give to those fathers, um, is if, if you are a father who, who is blessed, who has, who has money and has the ability to spend time with your children and has a good family life kind of like Scrooge, where you get to look at the other side of the equation, mm-hmm <affirmative> and see those, those children that don't have a father, or like my friend who says, I, I wish I never had a father because, you know, he's an abusive alcoholic to see the other side of the coin, [01:08:30] but then also for those fathers to see how lucky they are to have a son and what life could be like, and to see those moments and the love and the change that they could could be in that individual's life. Um, that's I know that's not physical, but, um, that perspective I think will, would change everyone's life on this

Speaker 1: Planet. Okay. That might be my favorite answer I've ever heard. Nice, Chris, I like that a lot. Um, [01:09:00] let's see. Uh, when in your life do you feel the most love

Speaker 3: It's it's with my boys without a doubt. Like, I mean, there's no doubt. I mean, when they, they come home, uh, or, uh, my, so we of our office that sits up on the third floor, I get to look out over Asheville and the mountains and I'm in the canopy. And I saw the piloted redhead wood pecker out here this morning, uh, pecking away or the, or the bears walking up here. But my favorite is when [01:09:30] it's about quarter seven in the morning, and one, one of my boys comes up into the office, still climbs into my lap, gives me a hug, says he loves me. Um, that's I, I told my older son, I was like, man, I remember our first house when used to cuddle with me when you'd come into the office. It was right next to his bedroom. And cause I know those days aren't gonna be there, you know, forever. But, uh, that's I hope, I hope they last, as long as they can

Speaker 1: Know, like the, the, my, uh, father-in-law says, he [01:10:00] remembers the very first day that my wife didn't jump off the bus and run and give him a hug. Oh yeah. But every day for her whole life. And then that one day suddenly it changed. So like, it makes you want to be at that bus stop every time you'll drop everything and make sure you're at that bus

Speaker 3: Stop. Yeah. Yeah. Those little moments are just, just amazing. So,

Speaker 1: So, uh, who, who's your favorite, uh, television dad?

Speaker 3: Um, [01:10:30] favorite? Geez. I haven't watched TV in so long about

Speaker 1: Fictional fictional dad.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have to, I have to think about, uh, um, kind of what, with some of the, uh, you know, some of the shows you can't say be Cosby anymore. Right. That's not anymore. I'm just kidding. I'm just, I'm sorry. I'm just, that's. That's a, that was a, yeah, that was, that was a bad joke. You can say,

Speaker 1: You could say Mr. Huxtable, maybe Dr. Hable, but not

Speaker 3: Bill Cosby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can't know. We're not gonna joke about that. Um, oh, geez. [01:11:00] Um, I, I really have not, I really have not watched TV in, so in so long, especially these things. Um, but, uh, what, what was the, uh, I'm trying to remember what the name of the show was with the, uh, the single father, you know, but again, that kind of goes back to epitomize, um, full house, full house. That's right. Oh yeah. Full house. Um, that was, you know, as I go back, that was like the show if [01:11:30] you looked at, but it wasn't just one father. And I think, you know, it's, to me, a family is more than just a father

Speaker 1: And a mother in that show. It just showed how, you know, the community aspect came into play. Um, I just remember watching that show and, and kind of like, you know, almost being like jealous of the kids in that show. And now when I look back with the perspective I have, it's, you know, it's kind of crazy to think about that. Um, maybe, maybe I could relate a little bit, um, or maybe it's just cuz I had a crush on, you know, one of the girls on the show. I have no idea. [01:12:00] Right. <laugh> okay. The billboard question. So you are going down the highway 70 miles an hour. Every dad is driving by it and you get to rent a billboard and your message fits on that billboard and it's best piece of parenting advice you can give.

Speaker 3: There's actually a billboard right on the other side of the mountain here. And it it's something, it's something to the effect of. You don't have to be perfect to be a perfect dad. And I don't even [01:12:30] need, I don't need to come up with my own advice, but you don't to be perfect to be a perfect dad like time with your kids, you know, quantity of time with your kids is quality. And like you mentioned, you know, being at the bus stop, just these little, these little conversations, um, somebody be like, well Chris, you guys, you, you have less time with your kids cuz you're not driving around and running around that quality, you know, having of those quality moments because I do have more time with my kids where I'm focused and I'm not, [01:13:00] I'm not distracted in doing other things. Um, again, don't, you don't kick yourself if you're not perfect. Just, just keep spending time with your kids, be there for 'em have those conversations, you know, take, take a couple of the tips that we talked about and, and share it with 'em and, and see where that goes.

Speaker 1: Do you think pursuing perfection is a worthy endeavor?

Speaker 3: Ooh, it is a, it is. Um, it's certainly a worthy endeavor. I don't know if it's a fulfilling endeavor <laugh> if that makes sense. Sure. Um, yeah, I think, [01:13:30] uh, you know, I think, um, improvement is you constant improvement. Kaizen is the, is the Japanese call? It, I think is, is how I would, uh, how I would prefer to, to focus on, um, cuz there's always somebody that's that's, that's better, that's faster. That has more money. Um, you know, you look at Bezos it's like, or, or, uh, bill gates, it's like you, a lot of the, these people, they fall hard, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and it's, if you're going [01:14:00] for perfection, if you're always going for more, um, you know, you, you're not, you, it's not, there's no true balance in life in my opinion, but if you want to be the best, if you wanna be really good, if you wanna be perfect at, at something, everything else probably has to fall away, you know? Yeah. And if you try to be a perfect father per you know, you may end up being worse just because, you know, there's, there's no such thing, you know?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, so [01:14:30] what, what are, uh, as perfect as we can get as fathers? What, what are, uh, maybe two or three characteristics that like a super dad has to

Speaker 3: Have? Um, yeah, well, first, first off love, right? Like you gotta, you have to, and for most of us that's easy. Like we, we love our children. We love them unconditionally. Um, the, uh, the, the ability to support your child, I think, um, [01:15:00] you know, whether they, whether my boys wanna be cyclist or not, you know, being able to say, Hey, my son's different than I am. You know, I'm gonna support that passion. I think I I'm that to me, I really will want to allow my children to develop their own individual passions. And I, I'm trying to find ways, you know, to support that. Um, you know, but also allow them experiences so that they can go out there and, and, and find, you know, those other passions within themselves to do that. Um, and [01:15:30] that's, that's kind of the other piece. It's like, you know, the whole helicopter parent, which I feel like that was probably the generation before us Tyler, but you know, you have to let your, your children fail. Like they have to fall down sometimes and get themselves back up, like it's okay for your children to fail. And the most important thing isn't to not out, let them fail it's to make sure that they have the ability, the strength to resolve the, [01:16:00] the mental tenacity. Um, and you know, frankly the, the, not, not some sort of catastrophe so that they can get back up after these small failures, you know, they say what fail for forward, fall forward, fail forward. Um, I think that's, that's the, the last piece of that puzzle.

Speaker 1: I, I find myself in, in my parenting mode defaulting more and more to getting out of the way versus my default being time to intervene. [01:16:30] Um, and that, that challenge being like when to get out of away being super important. Um, I wanna expand on something, you said, love being the first one. Uh, could you talk a little bit about loving yourself and how that impacts your ability to love someone else?

Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, I think, uh, I think a lot of people struggle with this, you know, I mean, especially if, if you are, you talk about being perfect or a perfectionist you're, you're, there's, there's [01:17:00] some value in being self critical. There's some value in, in constantly analyzing and saying, Hey, how can I get better in this way? Um, if you're an athlete, you're, you're saying like, yeah, that's like, that's like, why I'm why I'm good. That's like, why? You know, I don't, I, I look in the mirror, I'm, I'm gonna get up and make myself better every day. But also there's the other side of that, which is you have to give yourself some grace, you have to, you know, um, have the ability to, to be comfortable if, if, if you do fail [01:17:30] and, and you do make mistakes. Um, and if, if you're always dwelling on what you did wrong or what you could have done better, you know, you're, you're taking your eye off of, you know, just, just continuing to move forward and, and do that.

Speaker 3: So I think, you know, being able to love yourself and be comfortable, um, it does, it does make it easier to have a healthy, loving relationship because you can be in love with somebody and you can have a relationship. That's not healthy, it's codependent [01:18:00] because you're trying to fill an area within yourself. And this is coming from somebody that's, that's spent numerous hours sitting, sitting down, talking through this with professionals and that's okay if you're struggling, if, if you're struggling with something in your life, seek help. You know, I had a conversation with, uh, a man who's very close to me. Another, another guy that's very close to me and he's struggling with addiction. He's struggling with alcohol addiction. And we were talking about his [01:18:30] related and he is like, you know, I was like, well, why were you in that relationship? And he said, oh, cause I'm a, I'm, I'm a, didn't say this.

Speaker 3: But he said, basically, I'm, I'm a wi cause I'm a wissy. I'm like, no, that's not it. I said, you, you have this issue that you've never resolved. And the fact that you won't seek professional help, that's what makes you a woosie? Like it's not that you are one, it's the fact that you're not seeking [01:19:00] help. And I think as men, if you're listening your father, it's like, you know, regardless of all the things culturally that are going on today, oh, we're supposed to, you know, you know, be more in touch with our feelings. And we're, we're, we're a lot of men are still macho and they, they don't want to go get the help that's needed, especially for, for issues that may have happened during their childhood. Um, an addiction that they're struggling with, you know, a problem that they have. There's no, there is no pride in [01:19:30] going without help and continue to struggle with the issues that you have.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I, I want, I'm gonna shout out, uh, Hunter's podcast, which was, uh, two episodes ago. He talks about that a lot. Yeah. It was great

Speaker 3: Conversation,

Speaker 1: Lama wood, right? Yeah. You got it. You got it. Lama wood.com, shout out. Um, and my final question, before I ask it next level in com.com, is that the spot you're probably on Facebook, Instagram and all the rest as next level

Speaker 3: Com yeah. Yes. [01:20:00] We hardly even talked about like the book and all that, but, um, yeah. You know, so I mentioned like, I, I expand a lot on my story, the process, all these things that we talked about, Tyler in the book, um, next level income.com, get a free copy of our book. Just click on the book link. You can even put your address in, I'll send you a copy next level, income.com/kids. That's where you can get a copy of raising your young money pros. Those are those five ways to set your kids up for a lifetime of financial six. Our podcast is up there, the blogs up there, and my contact information [01:20:30] is up there as well, as well as all the big social media channels. Awesome.

Speaker 1: Well, I've enjoyed this, uh, immensely. I feel like we could do it for forever. Um, but here, here comes. My last question. Yes, sir. This recording will last generations of Larson's. If you could give a message to every generation from you, to them, for every generation on, uh, what what's a message you would share.

Speaker 3: [01:21:00] I would share this, the actions you take today, the make sure that your children will be proud of that. If you're struggling with a decision, look in the mirror and say, well, my children be proud of this decision that I'm about to make. If you can, if you can't say yes, there's probably a good chance you're making the wrong choice. And in my personal mission statement, I put that, you know, I say my biggest things. I want my children to be proud of their father, [01:21:30] because if I go through life and I'm struggling with the choice, you know, do I, do I Sue this person? You know, do I make this investment? You know, do I, you know, do I, you know, go to, you know, do I become a, you know, coach for this, this team, whatever that may be. If I put it through that lens, it is really clarifying. So that's what I would say. You know, look yourself, look yourself in the eye, in your mirror and say, when my children, when they're adults be proud of me, [01:22:00] if I do this,

Speaker 1: Thank you, Chris.


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