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Learning to Dad with Tyler Ross 024 - Mike Daugherty

Speaker 2: Hello and welcome [00:00:30] to learning to data. Tyler Ross that's me and my guest today is Mike Dardy. What's up, man?

Speaker 3: Nothing much, man. Glad to be here.

Speaker 2: Thanks for spending time. I guess we usually start, you know, talking about why we're doing this and that's because we talked to people that have kids and have different experiences with kids and people that have had success in their professional life tend to be analytical and reflective and think about things in a way that you can share stories to enhance, you know, somebody else's experience as a parent or a kid [00:01:00] or even a professional. And I know that you are a master of observations.

Speaker 3: I tend to observe too much, I think at times.

Speaker 2: And, uh, and you know, you got a story about kids too, man, with your experience. So you got three, but uh, yeah, twins and then one right on the twins heels. Um, but, but let's talk first about what you do for Atlas.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, uh, I'm an, I'm an attorney. I, uh, I typically practice in the family law area. [00:01:30] So I'm dealing with normal people going through probably the worst times of their lives. Families are separating financial issues. Um, so that's what I do on a, on a regular basis. It's interesting. It's fun. I love it.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And you do that in prince William necessary.

Speaker 3: Mostly, primarily Manassas. We venture out every now and then, but we're pretty lucky that we stay busy enough in that, in that area that we are able to stay close to home. And

Speaker 2: You grew up in Fredericksburg area,

Speaker 3: Stafford Griffin, Stafford, both, both my parents [00:02:00] were army officers. So we lived over in Korea, Europe for a little bit, but primarily grew up in Stafford county, Virginia.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Your mom is not an attorney. Your dad is an attorney. You did give me the family lineage of attorneys going on. [inaudible]

Speaker 3: Yeah. It's uh, it's, it's, it's a, as I tell people, we're sick. Uh, we work together. We traveled together every holiday, we hang out together this past weekend, we were hanging out together. Uh, we can't seem to get enough of each other, but yeah, fortunately my dad [00:02:30] got out of the army, passed the bar exam. Remember that being the most excited I've ever seen a human being to this day, picking us up in the carpool line. And, uh, him being able to tell us that he passed the bar exam and he's going to be a lawyer.

Speaker 2: So what time, what age was he when he passed the bar?

Speaker 3: So this was in 96, 97. So that's uh, and S uh, boys born 47

Speaker 2: Units preteen basically.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Middle school, middle school. So, uh, he did that and uh, we saw how much [00:03:00] fun he had and, uh, seemed like we all, that's what we all ended up doing. So my brother, my older brother, David is three years older. He does primarily criminal defense out of our office. And then my younger sister, Kate three years younger than I am. She does family law and then got my dad, of course. And then my wife Kim practicing. Does the, yeah. So, so far it's working.

Speaker 2: I see, I have a different experience. My dad's not as psyched about that as your dad was, he had a couple of years under his belt already before I was born. [00:03:30] So I think I, I got convinced to do something else. I got to take a two week course and practice law as a real estate agent, as opposed to having to be in attorneys.

Speaker 3: Yeah. But you definitely, um, you know, seeing and observing, uh, you know, my parents work ethic and my dad, you know, being happy and of course my mom being happy as well, doing what it is. It definitely has an impact on us, which is something that, uh, tine and, you know, not to, not to jump to the kids, but that's something I've definitely, uh, learned that kids literally repeat everything you do. So, uh, you gotta [00:04:00] kind of get what you put into it. So

Speaker 2: Volumes about your relationship with your dad and your, your brother and sisters to that, you'd all want to work together. I'm working on my dad, you know, is awesome. Um, being able for you guys to all do that as really.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. We just have to make sure, you know, me and my wife created a rule about three years ago, which probably saved our marriage, saved our lives is we don't talk about work after work. Just can't do it nice. Um, and that's, uh, that's helped out a lot, so, yeah, cause it was just, [00:04:30] uh, every car ride, every, every meal, just exchange stories about the horrible client or the horrible case or, and it just, uh, yeah, it eroded.

Speaker 2: Are you, are you at Liberty to tell any stories about like clients from five years ago or anything?

Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no re I mean, it's not like everything's confidential, but anything that's out in the public domain or that's been expressed in court is, is free game. I'm, you know, I'm not certainly going to divulge any confidential information, but yeah, there's some, there's some stories out there that, uh, I definitely learn, [00:05:00] uh, you know, I've been doing it for about seven years and then, so we have three year old. So for about four years, I didn't have the perspective of having children myself. And, um, so I was dealing with a lot of these custody divorce cases and I was trying to help them out as best that I, I, as I could. Uh, but I definitely realized now that I certainly have gained a, an extra layer of perspective in helping people go through those issues. Now, you know, now having the perspective of having children and experiences [00:05:30] and, you know, the mundane, the doctor's appointments, dentist appointments, um, sleep schedule, all those, all those intricacies that somebody who hasn't had children, uh, doesn't have the opportunity to gain. So, yeah.

Speaker 2: So if I'm getting divorced and I'm, and I'm going to go talk to attorneys, interview attorneys. Sure. Uh, would you say that, uh, having children being involved in a divorce, you it's an absolute prerequisite to get an attorney that has kids and can relate on that level? No.

Speaker 3: No, but I think you may gain a, an extra [00:06:00] layer of empathy or understanding from the attorney that may pick up on the nuances. You know, w one thing I ask people when they come into my office, which is something I didn't know, I'm like when you're trying to perhaps demonstrate that one person's been, let's just say more of a caregiver than the other. Okay. I asked them which side of the bed was the baby monitor on. Interesting. Okay. Cause we all know that the side of the baby monitor is usually the person that's going to be the one that at least is the, the, the going to get up. [00:06:30] Right. I mean, that's why, that's why it's there. Uh, maybe sometimes, maybe it's convenience, but typically I would say that generally the baby monitors on the side of the bed of the person that typically plays that type of, you know, 51% role, if it got that close. So that's just, I mean, there's many other nuances. Um,

Speaker 2: It's a great question. You know, it's like, it's almost, it's a loaded, but like you catch you off guard.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So that's, I mean, that's just, that's one of the many questions I ask people when I'm trying to get to the bottom of, you know, is the [00:07:00] person sitting across the desk from me telling me the truth, because the last thing I want to do is go into court and represent some, somebody that's not telling me the truth or so it's just a, it's just a good, it's not tantric. It's not necessary, but I think you potentially gain some insight. If you have an attorney that does have children and that's really involved with the children, I mean, you could have an attorney, that's got a bunch of kids, does it, doesn't do anything. They're not going to offer much help. So, but that's a hard, hard thing to task, but every now and then we [00:07:30] get clients that ask us, do you have children? Right. It's a real question. Um, but I think it's an important one. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Get him to understand the stakes. I've been a big proponent of saying that once you have kids, you feel on a completely different level that somebody who doesn't have kids can not relate to no matter what they just won't understand.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yep. Yep. And then, and then, yeah, then, and there's many layers into that. People that have kids that people have kids that have special needs or people that have kids have gone through a lot of healthy. I mean, yeah. There's just [00:08:00] a lot to, lot to layers.

Speaker 2: Has your experience in domestic law changed you as a parent or as a husband?

Speaker 3: Yeah. I, I think I would be lying if I said it. It hasn't, uh, yeah. I think it's certainly given me a different perspective. You know, you get, you get, um, spouses coming in there and complaining about things and I'm like, oh man, that's, that's something I do. Or that's something that I've done before, man. [00:08:30] Uh, you know, and, and not that, that person's the same person as Kim, my wife, but yes. I mean, I've, I've learned it's, you know, I think it's important. Uh, transparency, you know, there's nothing like having somebody in your office who's been married for 20 years and you ask, you know, did they have, does your, does your husband or wife have a 401k? And they say, I don't know. I mean, those are, those are, those are bad situations to be in. So I, you know, I'm as transparent, Kim, Kim lets me control the finances basically, but I make sure that I offer her [00:09:00] every opportunity she can. And even in nauseum on a Sunday morning, uh, tell her what our debt is and what bills are. And we need to tighten the budget. Uh, sometimes she didn't want to hear that, but I make sure I informed her as much as possible. So that one she's not in that position. Uh, and two, she, she has some, uh, you know, maybe feel some accountability for the financial stuff. So yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's definitely it's, it would be hard not to, for, to impact your life. [00:09:30] Why,

Speaker 2: Why do people get divorced?

Speaker 3: Um, many different reasons. One, they should have never been married in the first place. Uh, I mean many I, if I was going to give somebody advice right now as to like what's or some things to give yourself the best possibility of not getting divorced, uh, would probably be living together initially. Right. Got to live with a person before you marry them. I think that, uh, despite whatever religious or [00:10:00] beliefs you have, or just in general, I think you got to live with the person. If you're going to give yourself the best opportunity to have a stable marriage, uh, I think the financial transparency and then of course not, you know, not, uh, infidelity it's is a big, big, big factor in certainly with like the proliferation of the internet and all the dating sites and single, you know, married hookup. There's just so many options, [00:10:30] uh, available now to people that,

Speaker 2: And what's the excuse that you hear most about. Like, I just couldn't keep my hands off or he just treated me so much better than my husband or whatever, like in the infidelity circumstance.

Speaker 3: Well, there there's different categories of people that committed infidel there's guys. And I haven't had a whole lot of women. I'm not trying to [inaudible], but generally there's guys that have some sexual addiction. So it's massage parlors, prostitutes, those types of guys, [00:11:00] no, it's pure, it's physical. It's just treating, treating, they're trying to satisfy their, their, their quench for sexual. So there's nothing their wife could possibly do probably in those situations to satisfy their, their needs. Uh, and then you get the people that, uh, get detached, you know, fall out of love with their current spouse and then find somebody else. Um, and, um, and then you get then of course, like the random hookups, those are the, those are kind of rare. We see more of like the people engaging in relationships [00:11:30] with other people. Um, and as far as like, it just depends on who you're asking, who who's at fault, you're asking the, uh, if you're asking the, the, the individual who cheated, uh, you know, it's their ex their excuse is typically that, uh, you know, they're, they're not getting what they need at home and they're not, and they're, they're just fallen, you know, detached from their spouse.

Speaker 3: And then that's,

Speaker 2: It usually comes with not a lot of people [00:12:00] really, truly just own it. Like, it's my fault. I'm moment of weakness. Or I don't even know if that's

Speaker 3: Owning, we've had a couple of those.

Speaker 2: I'm a horrible person. She deserves it. Yeah,

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But those are rare, those, whatever, those are few and far between, but those are the easier people to work with the people that, you know, recognize and have some self-awareness intimate empathy that they've really screwed up. And, you

Speaker 2: Know, you ever work on any easy divorces.

Speaker 3: Yeah. There's a, there, there, there's a ton of easy divorces. A lot of people agree. [00:12:30] I mean, I do a lot of agreements, right. People, I, you know, you can contract out of your marriage and Virginia, you can agree to everything, uh,

Speaker 2: PSA mediators off. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yup, yup. Yup. Take care of everything. Uh, it can be relatively easy. I did my, I did a mediation today for a couple of people. And then, you know, that's me being a third party, trying to help them solve their problems. That's definitely the best way. Any, any legal dispute, whether you're suing somebody or trying to get a divorce, trying to come to some sort of resolution.

Speaker 2: Yeah. They ended up coming and having like a consult with you and [00:13:00] you ever say, you know, go talk to a therapist, figure some of this stuff out to make it easier to like kind of grease the skids a little bit or to maybe even try to reconcile.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that comes with a lot of people that are coming into my office that say, um, they want to check out. They want to be done. And, and, and I, I, you know, I, I, I think Jerry Seinfeld or somebody said something like this and, uh, you know, unless you go get some professional help about whatever's going on in your head, [00:13:30] you can't expect you're going to move on to another relationship and it's going to be different. It'll be probably be different for an initial phase. But those same problems that, that caused you in the prior relationship, uh, to break down are, are, unless you've gotten help or are gonna likely come back out. So, you know, it's like the grass, you know, grass, isn't always greener, which I think

Speaker 2: I've never heard it before, but I heard a spin on that, that phrase, the grass is always greener, but the grass is pretty green on [00:14:00] top of the septic field too.

Speaker 3: Okay. That was pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I, that's what I try to tell people when they come in my office and they want to, you know, check out on like, look, this isn't going to be worth it. Like, you're going to spend a whole bunch of money. You're not going to be happy. You know, if you really want to be happy, you need to probably go get help. And if you go get help and you determine that you're still

Speaker 2: Talking to a therapist

Speaker 3: Or therapist therapists, usually professional therapists that can help, uh, you know, work through your problems. Um, and, and, and [00:14:30] yeah. So

Speaker 2: How do, how do you, how do you and Kim work through your problems?

Speaker 3: How do Kim and I work through our prompts? Um, it's talking, we have a pretty open, uh, communication. Uh, you know, we talking about these intimate details with strangers every day, which does help us break through that barrier that that many couples may have that don't talk about these types of issues, but yeah, it's communication. I mean, you have to talk, if you're unhappy, you have to say something. If you're uneasy about a decision, you got to say [00:15:00] something, um, and try to try to come to some common ground. Um, but yeah, it's primarily talking and I'll tell you this when Kim and I do argue and do fight, um, it's, it's the lack of communication. There's, you know, one of us is either really upset, you know, just maybe not, you know, didn't sleep well that night super occupied at work, stressed out. And, you know, we don't, we don't mention something to the other person. And that's, that's usually when, uh, her and I don't get along. We get along for the most part. It's pretty [00:15:30] Kim and I have been together for a long time. And when, uh, you know, when Kim and I will talk about this every now and then we look back, like, there's only been like a handful of days where we haven't been together for like, I think the last almost like 11 or 12 years. And so we get along very, very well. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Talk about meeting Kim. Talk about the evolution of your relationship

Speaker 3: And you have to see, I listened to your other podcast. And I said, I got, I had a feeling [00:16:00] this was coming. Uh, no, there's nothing super unusual about chem and I, uh, meeting. Um, so we met, we met in high school. We were friends in high school. I think we each kind of had crushes on each other in high school. Uh, never, never did anything serious. And we both had significant others. Um, I, when I went off to college, I went to Hampton Sydney, which is all guys, liberal arts, small school. That's a whole segment for a whole other podcast. Why somebody would do that. Um, and Kim ended up going to Longwood. And when you go to an all [00:16:30] guys school and there's only three of them, so this advice I'm giving right now is probably gonna reach maybe, I don't know, people that are looking at going to all guys useless posted, or I should probably just skip this just to save, save us both times.

Speaker 3: When you go to all guys school, you have to make sure you have some good contacts with females, or at least other dudes at neighboring schools. And so long, it's about five miles away. And so I made sure I was [00:17:00] on consistent with Kim every single weekend. Uh, Hey, I need to come over. You need to bring me over. I need to meet your friends that did that. Cause she, she still had, uh, she was still in a relationship from high school. So I was very persistent with trying to meet her friends. She finally acquiesced and picked me up one night. She had picked me up, uh, took me over to, to Longwood to meet some of her friends. And then, uh, and then we ended up, uh, you know, starting a relationship from [00:17:30] then. So that was a, I think it was like October, some timeframe in 2004.

Speaker 2: You guys went to law school

Speaker 3: Together. Yeah. Yup. So we went to graduate in oh eight and just move right down to Florida. Um, I went to law school two and a half years. Just did classes, you know, just persistent classes, uh, through every semester, summer, and then move back into my parents' basement or moved into my parents' basement and lived in, well, maybe I didn't did I live in my parents' basement? No, I lived, they gave me a room upstairs [00:18:00] before, but after college you moved to the basement

Speaker 2: Underground. Yeah. Okay. And you immediately started practicing both you and Kim met.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So it was that we moved into my parents' basement, which is comfortable. It's a nice basement. Um, then we had to take the bar exam. So we, that was like a job. Luckily, uh, we, my parents helped us out and we, we, they, they provided us everything we needed. And so we, we took the bar exam. We didn't have to work during that time. And then as soon as we passed the bar exam, we [00:18:30] immediately started working. We were working for the law firm, like answering phones and doing some secretarial task before that, waiting for our results. So as soon as we passed the bar, I mean the next day he was taking clients. And so we, you know, courtroom. Yeah. So it was immediate, uh, just jump right in kind of

Speaker 2: Thing. You were always in domestic more or less. Why did

Speaker 3: I did 50 50? I did it. Didn't almost 50, 50 criminal and then domestic stuff, which I'm glad I did because people that just do criminal typically cannot transition to family. Cause criminal defense [00:19:00] in Virginia is relatively simple. Everything's foreign pleading, minimal paperwork. Just got to keep control your clients, corral them. Uh, domestic stuff is a whole new world. It's paper work, just boxes of paper and paper and paper and paper. So it's hard for somebody who's been doing something for a few years to jump into that. So I'm glad I got, I got experience in both and did both at the same time. I'm sure you're going to manage

Speaker 2: With your client in different ways too. Of course you can. I can I, can I tell them this story about coming [00:19:30] to your house and you were one of the earlier times that we ever hung out, I brought the drone over to take a picture of your house and you were on the phone with your guy. Do you remember this?

Speaker 3: We'll have to cut over. You're coming over with the drone.

Speaker 2: We'll have to cut it out. But it was so funny to me because you're going on the other line and the phone going, oh no, no, no. Cause I'm not the dumb that got bounce. A coconut [inaudible] that side [00:20:00] of the conversation. It's so funny to me, it was just like that guy needed to be talked to in a way that was like, no man, because I'm not the dumb that had, and now it's a Coke.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, sometimes people lose track of, uh, you know, what they did. The lack of self-awareness is a major issue in the criminal defense field. Uh, and, and look, people are charged all the time. They're innocent, [00:20:30] but there's, there's a lot of guilty people. And a lot of guilty people have a problem with their self-awareness. They don't understand like how their actions affect other people. Even though it's clear to a normal person that what they did has lifelong potentially lifelong effects and they just don't get it. And they want to blame everybody else other than themselves to big problem. Oh yeah. Yeah. But that's a big problem in divorce stuff too, because oftentimes you get people that are like, look, it's her, it's her, it's her. And it's like, you can't always be [00:21:00] hurricane always be him like it's trying to meet somewhere.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, my, the, the biggest thing that I think is other than not talking about work, and I know you haven't asked me a question, but I'm gonna tell you, uh, other than, uh, not talking about work is, is asking people the very first question I ask people when they're in my office is what is your goal? Right? Because if they tell me something crazy and I can't, and so what I do is they tell me something crazy. I talk, I try, I give myself five minutes. Then if I can't talk them out in five minutes about what they just said, [00:21:30] it's crazy. I won't let them hire me because it's going to be miserable. Tell me, tell me something crazy. You've heard. Well, I mean, it's not necessarily, it's like, uh, I want her to have supervised visitation.

Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, supervise visitation station. That's that's asking a lot, you know, you gotta get to have third party. I was like, okay. So what did she do? Oh, uh, you know, she drinks and I'm like, oh, okay. Like, that's like, Hey, you know, with nothing substantial, nothing to justify, requiring a mother, [00:22:00] having a third party supervised to make sure they don't physically or emotionally harm a child. That's asking a lot. So, and so just crazy stuff. Like, I don't want my wife to have my 401k. I'm like, okay. Um, so she's a bad gambler. Like she gambled a bunch of your money away. Oh no. She just, uh she's. She stayed at home and raised the kids. I'm like, well, you know, that's going to be a tough one to sell, uh it's. Stuff like that. And if you can't talk to people out of it, you can't like re you know, why would [00:22:30] I work with them?

Speaker 3: Even though if they're going to me, why would I work with them? Because it's just going to be me trying to meet their, their, uh, their, their heightened expectations that are not based in reality. And so I've really done a good job of, you know, making sure those people don't harm me every one of them every now and then once slips through the cracks. And I got to know, so my, my plan isn't foolproof, but it's certainly better than having like a dozen or so of crazy people that you know, that they [00:23:00] can't be satisfied. Some people just want to hate through their attorney. Yeah. Yeah. Exact punishment through the attorney, but there's so many similarities in personalities and things, people say that all line with like the, like, as I say, the, the client, you don't want to hire either so many different, you know, everyone's different. Everyone's unique now. Yeah. There's, we're limited. Uh, and there's, there's like these set of personalities that I can identify, I somewhat can identify that all fit into this category of problematic [00:23:30] people that, you know, you can understand why their marriage failed, um, you know, type of stuff. So, yeah. But anyway, again, not answering the question, but yeah, that can be, it can be to anything. Right. I mean, I think that's what, uh, yeah, I think that's what helps.

Speaker 2: Well, let's, let's talk about, uh, kids a little bit, like talk to me about the decision to have a kid and the experience of having a kid.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, [00:24:00] you know, Kim really wanted a kid, uh, and I, and I, you know, I wanted a kid to, did not have any real apprehension about it. Kim struggled to get pregnant for a long time. That was hard to deal with. And it wasn't as long. I mean, everyone has a different story. It wasn't as long as a lot of people had, but she had some, some struggles and, you know, people around her were, you know, having children right away. So it was, it was tough to see Kim like that. So we did the whole like minor fertility thing. We didn't go too deep into it. And she got pregnant with the twins. [00:24:30] That was, that was a good experience. And the, you know, I tell people about the sonogram, like, you know, she knew she was pregnant and, you know, with the fertility here, hear these, um, you know, stories, whether it's a blessing or horror stories of people getting pregnant with multiple kids, fertility stuff, because of the medicine and, you know, they help.

Speaker 3: So like when the doctor was doing the sonogram, you know, there was no bedside manner, you know, the, you know, so [00:25:00] I don't know. I don't know. I think they lose that. I don't know, but up, and you know, he's like, oh, he's an old guy. Oh, there's one, there's two up. And then, you know, we're like, oh, stop. Like, come on. Like calm down. There's only two. Okay. There's only two, like, you know, we were blown away. So there are two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But there are two, um, it was just like the, you know, the re the rapid county without any like, you know, warning of like, I'm about to tell you how many kids you're about to have. That was, that was, uh, that was exciting. So, yeah. So we had the twins, I think, [00:25:30] you know, I was thinking about, you know, what, what we were going to talk about here.

Speaker 3: I wasn't sure what you're gonna ask me, but, um, yeah. Yeah. I didn't think you would have any type of questions, but yeah. So, so it's, the kids have been great. And then, uh, you know, of course, you know, cause they, the doctor said Kim couldn't get pregnant naturally. I don't think they actually said that verbatim. I think it's what we told ourselves, but then we're like, okay, well, you know, if you get pregnant again, it all be a blessing, blessing, blessing, not thinking would actually happen. And then right after [00:26:00] I traded in one of our SUV's for a sedan, uh, the very next day, uh, she, she, she demanded I'd get a pregnancy test and I refused. And then when I realized she was absolutely serious, I was like, oh my God, uh, got the pregnancy test. And she found out she was pregnant with a, um, our third child.

Speaker 3: So how close are your babies? I think they're 16 months, uh, twins. So yeah, so the twins just turned three in April, uh, Scotty to the, [00:26:30] the, the big little sister will be two in August. So yeah, that was, that was worrisome. Uh, you know, I was worried when she was pregnant with the twins of what the, what, you know, what the heck we were going to do when the third one and the twin. So like, I don't even walk in or talk. And I was like, well, what are we going to do? This is, uh, this is crazy. And it is in fact crazy, but

Speaker 2: I still don't think I've ever really seen you tired. Like you have more energy than most [00:27:00] people I know and use it pretty efficiently.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I appreciate that. You know, I'm freaking my seventh coffee right now as we speak. That's why I was a couple minutes late getting my seventh cup and then some people got in a car wreck. Yeah. I, and you know, I look at my dad and my dad's the same way. I mean, just, just unlimited energy. I mean, I do get tired and I get exhausted. Um, no doubt about that, but yeah. Uh, I try to, I try to stay,

Speaker 2: But what's so like my experience zero to [00:27:30] 12 months, of course we have an introduction to our kid, you know, within a year. And so like, what'd you feel like your role was for that first, you know, 16 months with the twins and then again, you know, with the third?

Speaker 3: Yeah. So I knew, uh, from the outset that I was going to have to play a big role because you got twins, right. Twins are coming there's, there's two of them. There's two of us, you know, we, uh, yeah. So I, I was not, um, surprised [00:28:00] or taken unexpectedly that my wife was expecting me to, to, to, to, um, chip in, um, just as much, but I mean, obviously coach there's limitations, she breastfed the twins thankfully for quite some time. So that was helpful. Um, and then the, so when, when Scotty came along, um, it was interesting because now, so the, the twins were about 16 months old, which is a couple of months younger than what Scotty is now. Um, [00:28:30] when the, when Scotty came along and then obviously Kim had to take her and, you know, do what she had to do with her, kind of like with the twin, you know, the breastfeeding and stuff. So I got to spend, um, an exorbitant amount of time with the twins for about six months, uh, during that time phase of, you know, bedtime routine and all that type of stuff, which I was, you know, I, I I've, I've tried to play as big of a part in the day-to-day care of the kids, as I possibly can, unfortunately, with our jobs and our schedules and the support that we have, that we both been [00:29:00] able to do that. So

Speaker 2: Kids in diapers, how many diapers a day you think you were going through?

Speaker 3: No, I don't even, I don't even like to think about that. Those are the, yeah, those are the dark ages. I try to forget those. I don't even know everything's a blur, uh, lots of diapers, lots of, um, lots of crying, lots of, uh, yeah, lots of everything. Um, you know, but, but we found like, you know, one of the best things I discovered was a hand-held fan [00:29:30] for food, for the twins. You know, when you cook the food, I realized that I didn't have time to blow their menu when I'm mad. And I got to scream and monsters in the corner, screaming for their, uh, whatever it is. I just heat it up or whatever it is. So man, we got this food fan and that has saved if you talk about shaving minutes, like it's been unbelievable. Yeah.

Speaker 2: And grinding down that far to like having something cool. The food that's serious.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, [00:30:00] yeah, yeah, yeah. We did that. And then, uh, another thing that's probably saved our lives on more than a dozen times is, uh, I got one of those extension arms for the, uh, for our car. Cause the twins are in the very back in the third row and they drop stuff all the time. Of course. And there was one trip we took out, I was unbuckling and, and getting back and I mean, absolute just nonsense. But when the kid is screaming and you stop, you give them what they want, then they drop it right. When they get back on the highway, I mean, you just, you're risking your [00:30:30] life. If you want to get wherever you want to go. I mean, you don't, you didn't plan to drive eight hours for a two hour trip. So I mean, I got on Amazon right there on that trip in order to, uh, like three foot long extension on grippers. So we leave those in the car. So they dropped stuff. Now we can grip them. There's some things that are clever in the dark zone that we can't get. Uh, but, uh, that's, that's been a life-changing is those two little gadgets,

Speaker 2: So sterically, that was [00:31:00] genius. Both of them.

Speaker 3: And you know what, you know what they say? Like when, uh, you know, when you, when you're presented with like a challenge, you know, you, you resort to like, you know, the path of least resistance and some people were, I think a little bit more, like have a little bit more of a need to find a solution than, than others. Um, we were in desperate need for a solution.

Speaker 2: So what's what was raising twins like versus like, uh, like I know that you have three kids, but

Speaker 3: Yeah. And so that's yeah. And that's hard to do. Um, [00:31:30] and that's hard to do because, and people are like, well, the, the, you know, cause we're pregnant, Trump people trying to make you feel better when you're having three kids in that soon, they say anything to make you feel better. They're like, well, at least the one will be easier than the two I'm like, okay, well where are the two good to go? Because we're going to have three. But I find that a lot of times people say stuff and they don't really understand what they're saying, like this, for example, and you got to ask you do we interview all these fathers and these older people. And we were relatively [00:32:00] young and I know you've probably said this, you've probably heard this at least 65 times enjoy it. They're going to grow up fast. And I, I want to stop and say, what do you mean by that? Like I understand enjoy, but is there something particular that I need to be doing differently? Like maybe they're just saying that maybe I understand, like, okay, like appreciate, like they're saying, you know, don't take it for granted, but at sometimes I've heard it so many times. I want to ask them, what exactly do you mean by that? Like,

Speaker 2: Just like to your [00:32:30] food before you swallow it. You're like, yeah, I know.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But, but like what, is there something in particular that you didn't do that you wish you had? Cause if it, if it is tell maybe I make sure I'm not doing it because right now I'm with my kids and I'm enjoying it. It was

Speaker 2: Kind of very good vibe, which

Speaker 3: Is what you're telling me to do. And I, I mean, people it's it's, they mean it and they're genuinely, they mean that. Um, but yeah, and it it's kinda like, this is totally off topic, but talking about people that say things, they don't really understand, like my wife happened to be very beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I guess I see [00:33:00] those listeners. I agree.

Speaker 3: And not to, not to townie thing, but I think that's been determined. Uh, and so a lot of times people will come up and be like, oh my God, Mike, you out, you know, you out punted, you're covered, you know, these corny things. Like, and I'm like, do you really understand what you're saying right now? Like, like you're calling be ugly. Like, are you really doing that? Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know. I know. But, but I, I think that's another again. And there's a lot of things people say that they, [00:33:30] I don't think they fully understand what they're conveying or what they mean, but, uh, that's one of them that I've, there's two things I've heard a lot. I just want to stop some people sometimes ask,

Speaker 2: What are you thinking? What are you do

Speaker 3: You really? Yeah. I'm like, you're ugly too. Like, like, wait, but I can't say it cause your wife's not, you know, super good-looking. Cause if I say it, then you're

Speaker 2: Average

Speaker 3: And it's really messed up to think. But you know, sometimes that's what, you know, [00:34:00] anyway,

Speaker 2: But we could talk about, I mean, that reminds me of something. My sister's eight months in, so I'm pregnant now. And my mom is on a blue light EMF, uh, streak right now, like really focused in, on educating herself on that stuff and talking about the dangers of like led light and exposure. And uh, she's talking to my sister about giving birth and the prospect of maybe having to have a C-section and she just got on a roll and saying, you know, maybe you can talk to convince the doctors [00:34:30] and to having the C-section without the lights on like, wait a minute, are you listening to you? So she immediately retracted. But just to think that you get that much steam going and what you're saying, you're suggesting that you have hip surgery with the lights off, but that the blue light, she thought she thought it was funny, but yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And that was, that was something that, uh, Kim and I learned, you know, with the twins, th I think the best thing that Kim and I had and you'd be like, oh my God, they together, two kids [00:35:00] that's we literally did not know we were getting into, like, we were at the NICU, the neonatal intensive care unit at a UVA hospital, which was excellent. I stayed hospital. And like, you know, one of the doctors came up before Kim, uh, was about, you know, well, we didn't know whether she gonna a birth or not, she's real early. And they're like, she was like, she came and check, I want to explain to you the NICU. And we were like, all right. Yeah. And Kim's like Mo you know, in total pain and nothing set us up for what a NICU is, if you've never been to one.

Speaker 3: Um, but, but why I say this is, is, [00:35:30] um, you know, we experienced that it was incredible to experience. And, um, it definitely gives us some perspective of like being grateful, like, you know, every, you know, every now and then when the kids are acting crazy, you know, having three of them having two of them, whatever it is, you always just think back like Kim and I both always, and we remind ourselves, Hey, at least we're not in the NICU. Right? Like these we're not in the hospital, at least we're not in that. And I think that helps, right. Uh, well, considering we didn't didn't [00:36:00] know really anything about it. Uh it's you know, it's a, you go in there and you got you there's babies with all types of issues. I mean, there are a lot of them are born prematurely, UVA hospital. There's a lot of people that come from the west, which is, you know, heavy drug for, you know, just, just, you know, there were, there were a lot of babies up there that we didn't see any parent or anybody show up for in the, in about the month and a half.

Speaker 3: We were there, you know, children born with Oregon's outside their bodies to all types of stuff, kids that have been there for a year [00:36:30] or so, just trying to get to a level in which they can survive.

Speaker 2: And what, what, uh, was the initiating factor to go down to UVA in the first place? Was it a, uh,

Speaker 3: So yeah, so, so at UVA, uh, Kim wanted to have a natural birth, and this is something we learned. Kim may have known this, I learned this, uh, like having a, having a baby naturally, it's typically a lot safer than having a C-section C-section surgery. They open you up, you know, whatever. I'm not fully versed in that, but, but having a natural birth is, [00:37:00] is, um, it's, it's usually healthier for the mother and for everybody involved. And so, um, our options for Fairfax and UVA and our, you know, Kim's doctor recommended UVA because they're a little bit more liberal with allowing mothers to choose whether to have twins naturally. Um, and so, whereas Fairfax, what she was told, whether I haven't verified this eight, they, you know, it's, it's C-section if you having twins it to C-section. Um, so that was the preference

Speaker 2: Being down there [00:37:30] for a month, month

Speaker 3: And a half. Yeah. So again, we got very lucky. So we found out, you know, w when, when we first got there, they're like, well, we're going to keep them in here for six weeks. So I was like, well, I'm going to run home, get some stuff. My mom was like, sit down on the couch and don't leave five hours later. The kids were born. Um, yeah, it was rapid, but fortunately, some friends of ours knew, had some friends that lived in Charlottesville that we had met through, um, at weddings. And, uh, he texted me, the guy [00:38:00] from Charlottesville texted me, the friend texted me and was like, Hey, if you guys need anything. And I was like, well, we need to be nice to have a place to stay. And him and his wife were like, sure, come on over. And so they, they opened up their house for us for about six weeks can pretty much live down there.

Speaker 3: We had at every single restaurant, it was a good time. And we ended up w I mean, there, there are some of our best friends. Now, the people that we, uh, we lived down there with their godparents, we, you know, we asked them to be the godparents. They agreed to be the godparents for the twins. But yeah, that, that was single-handedly one of the biggest, uh, [00:38:30] jet, you know, nicest gestures anybody could offer for us at that time, as well as, uh, making it feasible rather than Kim having to drive an hour and 20 hour and 30 minutes back and forth from home to the hospital, that would have been devastating for everybody involved. So, yeah, that, that definitely made it easier. So of all the NICU, you know, we didn't have to stay at the end. They have the Ronald McDonald house and they have other op hotels and things, and we could end up being, you know, a $10,000 experience.

Speaker 3: But luckily the friends, um, opened their house to us scares down there while you were in UVA. [00:39:00] Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, yeah, but a lot of it w being so ignorant to the whole neonatal intensive care was so helpful. Like the doctors were like, they woke us up. I mean, the first night they woke us up and we're like, okay. Yeah. And, you know, and, and looking back, like the C-PAP like, I even like, like I posted a picture of the kids, right. When they were born, I didn't even know, like I've had a niece. Right. I, but I haven't had that much experience. I didn't, I didn't even realize like [00:39:30] that this was such a dire, you know, situation, but because their lungs weren't, I mean, they were born, I think, 30, nearly 32 weeks. So they were due at the end of may and they were born April 7th.

Speaker 3: So, yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, it, it was scary because you would, you know, find out they weren't, you know, developing and you talk about your mom and lights. They have the, if your kid, the belly Rubin, it's like their pigment and their skin, it's like an ultraviolet right there. They put sunglasses on the kid and shine it on them [00:40:00] to get their belly Ruben high enough. And it's like, there, I guess that's the deals with the picnic. Again, anybody do not rely on any information given in this podcast, please consult your own doctor and a lawyer. This is not, this is not intended to be advice or a reliable information with some legal yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna have to, you're gonna have to put a little box, you know, some people are gonna have to check, listen to this one. I agree. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Well, you know, when, when, when our daughter was breached, so William came naturally [00:40:30] and then our daughter was breached. And I remember that and I did, I kept a 90 degree angle, um, of the birthing thing. I had zero interest in viewing. Yeah. None, zero, none, none. Uh, you know, I'm there, I'm there to hold a hand. I don't need to see anything. I'm not a, I'm not trained training to be a doctor. I don't need to see that. Uh, well, so Nellie was breached, which means she wasn't head down again, another medical term, check that up yourself. Uh, and, and the doctrine hit up, like ripping her leg and snapping her femur. [00:41:00] So we dealt with a broken femur. So she had a broken femur. So she's not only, she was like less than four pounds tiny. She had her bone had just snapped her femur bone.

Speaker 3: It snapped. So we dealt with that. That was interesting. So that was scary. Cause you know, you think if I broke my femur, I would be wanting to shoot myself in the head if I didn't have any medication. So like a little tiny baby born early, already had problems. He's got a broken femur. Um, miraculously, um, it, the bone, I mean it healed within like, like two months, [00:41:30] just like the doctor said. So. Yeah. Yeah. So anybody looking to be a, um, like a physician, I would highly recommend pediatrics. Like whether it's orthopedics or dentistry, it's like, oh, your teeth are rotting. They're falling out anyway. Or like, oh your bones. Like, it seems like everything is like, it'll just heal. Just give it time. That's the best. If I was going to be a doctor pediatrics, I probably, I mean, I'm sure it's not always easy, but [00:42:00] uh, that's always good to be able to have, um, you know, natural.

Speaker 2: So like nobody more settling than a good pediatrician. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing more unsettling than a bad one. But can we talk, can we talk about Kim's exploratory committee? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Tell him, tell me what's up. Like, I, I haven't been, I'm afraid to talk to her about it because I'm sure everybody's talking to her about that.

Speaker 3: Nah, well, I don't know. Um, yeah, she's, I mean, a lot of people are talking to her about it. Um, yeah. So Kim, uh, my wife, [00:42:30] uh, for some reason is decided, well, not for some reason, but, uh, has decided that we need art to have even busier lives than we already do. And so she's, um, thinking about running for Congress for the fifth district, uh, as a Democrat, it's a tough district. It's a, the largest in Virginia. Um, it's been red for quite some time. Um, yeah. So she's wanting to be in, get into politics ever since, uh, she was in college. Uh, I, I can, she, I believe her when she says that. Cause I knew I [00:43:00] knew that to be true. Um, and so she's decided to do this. So it's been, uh, so far it's, it's, it hasn't been too taxing, but it's a lot of driving around. It's a lot of traveling, it's a lot of meeting people. Um, but you know, Kim's primary. I mean, I don't want to speak for her, but you know, she's, she's, I think she brings a, a working person's perspective. Somebody who's dealt with, um, everyday issues, not only in our own hurdle, our own life, but, uh, being a [00:43:30] domestic attorney, dealing with a bunch of other people,

Speaker 2: She's got a lifetime of experience as told to her through her.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think she's a good advocate. She's a really good speaker. She's a really good writer, a really good listener. Um, yeah. And, and passionate about things that she's pat and passionate about. Right. And she's smart, super smart. And uh, I think it's very helpful in trying to, um, give your district or, you know, give your constituents the best possible chance they have of being represented well

Speaker 2: [00:44:00] Change, like the kind of roles that you guys have established over the last three years.

Speaker 3: It's been relatively new, but um, well, th the new experience, so there's more, you know, well, let me tell you what it was like before. Like, so typically we'd get home. We'd both get home about the same time. Sometimes we'd go to work together, come home together, pick the kids up. They go to all day daycare right now. Um, and you know, and we have a helper. We have a high school girl that comes over, uh, Monday through Thursday for a few hours each day [00:44:30] to kind of like, you know, one point it was like holding the baby, like holding Scotty or, you know, just cleaning up a little bit. Uh, mother's helpers. So one of us can go do something. Or if one of us is in court late, we have somebody there and it's not one person handle on all three. So, uh, we all, we all, we both played like the day-to-day roles. We were both there as is nice. So now, I mean, again, it's relatively new, but like, uh, you know, she's going to events, you know, in the evening time. So, and a lot of them were like far away, so I'll pick, you know, I'll [00:45:00] pick the kids up from school, take them home, you may see. And then there'll be me, may see for, you know, until they, until about 6, 6 30 and then Macy goes home and then, um, you know, I get them out of bed and put them together, put them down. So, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So, so how, how would that change if she actually was elected to office and she's got a big uphill?

Speaker 3: Yeah. So that, I think that's just going to be more evenings away. That's going to be more, uh, of a role that I have to play in and, uh, assuming, filling that gap. [00:45:30] Yeah. That's, uh, it's a big commitment. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Could see the beads of sweat

Speaker 3: Thinking like how much, how much coffee am I going to have to keep drinking? Yeah, no, um, it's certainly, yeah. Yeah. It's not an easy decision to make and came as and taking it lightly. Um, I haven't taken it lightly. I, I think I, I don't know exactly what I'm getting into, um,

Speaker 2: Until

Speaker 3: You're in it. Right. Kim's [00:46:00] advantage. Um, but I, you know, as I've learned, everything's tough until you do something tougher. So, you know, I think that's what that's, what's going to come down to. Yeah. But I'm excited for Kim and hopefully she can, uh, fulfill whatever, uh, you know, position she's trying to

Speaker 2: Sarah, is there something that they did, like the kids inspire her in some way of like, I want

Speaker 3: The circular thing. Um, I don't. Yeah. Well, I, you know, we were dealing with a lot of health insurance issues. Um, I think that the health insurance and access to medication, [00:46:30] I mean, that's something that we deal with. And as, as, you know, as much as we like to read and read a lot of stuff, you know, we get these, all these bills and all this stuff, and it just seems like these insurance, even our own insurance has taken advantage of us. I mean, once Kim, once we started paying attention, it was like, wait a minute. That's, that's the same bill for that. And I just, and I think we started thinking, and this is not the, the catalyst, but there's just one thing when it comes to insurance, uh, which is a big issue in this country is we're like, man, if this was just a normal person, who's getting home at six o'clock, seven o'clock at night, already [00:47:00] stressed out, they're getting these bills.

Speaker 3: They may just be in a pain them. And then the insurance companies are stealing the money. I'm not saying that's the, that's the only issue with insurance, but that's just something that is become readily apparent, uh, considering how many medical bills we get these days. Um, but I think in general, I think it's like just the general attack on women, I think, and I'm not going to get, I stay out of the politics. I'm like, if she's Kelly, Kelly and Conway, I'm not, uh, Mr. Kelly Hancock, [00:47:30] I try to stay low. I've got to keep a low profile. I don't. So, uh, but I think Kim, you know, you hear about all this abortion ban and this is just, uh, it's just, I think that's really what it is is that I don't think Kim feels as though a lot of these men that are representing their constituents are able to do it effectively and actually represent what needs to be represented. Um, alt you know, just, just not doing what their, their job and that's unfortunate.

Speaker 2: I know who it was, but somebody suggested that all the politicians were, [00:48:00] uh, patches just like NASCAR drivers, you know,

Speaker 3: It's money. Yeah. It's really disturbing. It is disturbing. Our political system has really gotten, yeah. It's sideways for sure.

Speaker 2: Sorry to think the expression consensual rape would, uh, make it to headlines is bizarre. Yeah. That's neither

Speaker 3: Here. That's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Let's, let's, let's, let's talk about dad's stuff and that stuff, uh, like what's something that is [00:48:30] on your, not to do Wist for your kids.

Speaker 3: Um, as far as them not to do or not, for me not to do in front of them,

Speaker 2: You'll never do it.

Speaker 3: Well. Um, never, oh, there's a lot of things I'd never do. Um, what things like daily things that I try not to do, um, is certainly use any language that I wouldn't want them to use. Right. So trying to keep everything nice. Um, and what I tried, what I literally tried to do, and this is not, again, I'm not answering your question very well. Uh, be a bad witness. Um, [00:49:00] I try to do what I want to see them do, right? So like I get ridiculed. Like I got ridiculed one day, which I found amazing at the daycare when I asked my daughter, uh, not to go in the crackers and she went to cry. I said, can you please not go in the crackers, please? The, these crackers, this daycare, I can't get out of the daycare. Cause they have all these crackers and water stations set up and the kids get distracted.

Speaker 3: And even though I've complained, I complain every day, you gotta, you gotta please get rid of the crackers, put them [00:49:30] in the back room because I can't get my kids out of the school because they go to crackers. And then not only do they get the crackers, they, they prefer the oyster crackers. And those things get thrown in the car. It's ridiculous. It's a disaster under their carpet. Um, but like, but somebody, I can't remember who it was, was like, oh, you're already resorting to please. And I'm like, like I was like, I was telling my kid, I'm like, no, that I'm saying, please, because I'm trying to, I want them to say, please do it's I'm doing what I want them to do so, [00:50:00] even though I'm telling her, please don't go to the crackers or come to the car, please. I'm using please, because that's how I want them to talk when they talk to other people politely. But this lady really called me for it. I couldn't believe it. That's so busy. Again, people say things and I don't think they fully understand what they're saying. Like

Speaker 2: Anyway, that makes, that makes sense to me. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So

Speaker 2: Maybe they thought you were.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. But even if I am, even if I am the kid, the kid's not, they might, the kids [00:50:30] not smart enough to distinguish whether I'm begging or whether I'm asking at this age. Right. So we've got many

Speaker 2: Horrible pieces of advice.

Speaker 3: No, just probably insufficient pieces of advice. They say things and I'm like, well, okay, well I need more. And that's one thing I try to do. I, uh, you know, w with older people that have kids, I, I, one of the questions I'm like, do you have any advice? I I'm constantly asking people, do you have any advice in some people give good advice and people give advice that I cannot use? Yeah. So that's what I like to do. Cause I think everyone [00:51:00] likes to, I think everyone thinks they're doing a good job. And I think everyone thinks that they're doing something in particular. That's good. And I, I th I, I tend to believe that people like to share that. And it's not something you get asked all the time. So not only does I think, do I think it, it

Speaker 2: Gives them permission to say what they

Speaker 3: Want to say. Yeah. It's something that I can gain too in there. And they appreciate that somebody is actually asking them, you know, Hey, do you have any good advice for

Speaker 2: Me? Anything stuck out to you that you got,

Speaker 3: You know, real practical advice was make sure your kids are really, [00:51:30] really good at math and science. And then they, you know, cause there's a test. I think they take in like middle school in it. And, um, and, and, and based on how they do on that test, they either get put on a track of like furthering their mathematical and science education, which will then propel them into a plethora of incredible jobs, especially coming to the digital age. Um, so that was like really practical advice. I was like, okay, that's all. We will remember that. Um, [00:52:00] you know, I asked somebody about private school versus public school and I, this advice stuck out to me, um, cause you have some people that are like team private school all the way. And there's some people that are like, no way I don't like private school. And so I felt that this guy's advice was really good practical.

Speaker 3: He said, uh, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't invest a lot in the early years of private school, but I think high school where you actually have to learn to study and learn, um, you know, really [00:52:30] hone in your writing and things that would be good to go to a school that you know, is doing particularly well in those subjects to prepare them for college. So not necessarily, you know, doing the initial investment of, you know, K through eighth grade, but, but if you're going to do, if you're going to do it and you're, you know, unsure the high school would be the best way to

Speaker 2: Somebody in those lines, somebody suggests a middle school more or less for that same reason, because it's like, you're kind of socializing. If we do your mostly kid turns out to be the human they are because [00:53:00] of the time they spend with their parents and friends outside of school in school, they get introduced to a lot of stuff. And I felt like it's sixth, seventh, eighth grade where it's like, here's what pod is. Here's what opiates are. Here's what drinking is. And somebody suggested that. Try to exert a little more control

Speaker 3: Over that period. Yeah. That makes sense.

Speaker 2: Which to me it's like private school seems in public school, seems like they have the same issue. It's just

Speaker 3: Different. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same problems. It's just, you [00:53:30] know, typically

Speaker 2: I guess the public schools, there's more people usually. So there's more opportunity, um, for either side.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Whereas the private school, if it's, you know, there's fewer people than you could still have a really bad one person can, you know, sell pot to the whole class. Right. You don't need multiple

Speaker 2: People

Speaker 3: Could be, but, but I think you, yeah. And whether that, yeah, so I mean, it's the same, same issues. Um, know, I think it's just different, uh, scope of the problem. Um, but yeah. So going back to your question [00:54:00] of like what I try not to do, I, I try not to do anything that I, you know, I don't want the kids doing uh it's it's it's um, you know, there's things I don't think I do very well. I don't think I, um, I don't know. Yeah. I can't. Well, yeah, I don't, I don't say no very well. Um, I'm I have a hard time doing that. Um, I'm more of just a pleaser. Um, there are, there is a line I'll draw, but typically Kimball, um, get onto me for being too [00:54:30] soft. Which,

Speaker 2: So when are you soft when it comes to discipline to like keeping your kid in the lane? Like, what do you do to, you know, like keep them from establishing? How do you get them away from the crackers? Get away the crackers or else, or get away from the crackers.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So when it comes to the crackers, I usually just say, um, leave the crackers alone, or I'm leaving you at the school and it doesn't work. My friends. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, we're going bye-bye I have no [00:55:00] crackers. Yeah. I mean, we're not like we don't do the physical. We're not like corporal punishers. I mean, when they're wrong, they're wrong. Like, so, you know, obviously any physical violence between the kids, we jump on it. That's, that's clear discipline, but it, when it comes to like my daughter asking for an Oreo late at night, and she's like, you know, on the cusp of tears, I'll give her, I don't care. I'll brush her teeth extra long.

Speaker 3: If I, now, if I knew it was going to keep her up, if I knew [00:55:30] there was some, and I don't know the full, all the side effects of union or you're late at night, I don't know that. Um, I guess, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess you assume you're eating something and, and she's very small, so I'm not worried about like the health issue of like her gaining weight. Um, so I, I really don't see any further ramification. That's like they analysis, you know, you're talking about in the beginning, like people that, you know, like you said, you like to interview people that seem to think about things a little bit more than others. And that's what I think about. I'm like, okay, what's what are the, what's the downside of the Oreo?

Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:56:00] Two Oreos every night for a while. She's

Speaker 3: Whatever I can't see. I make that do that type of analysis for every single decision I make, but I try to be thoughtful in every decision I make. And I don't think Kim fully comprehensive and she can't because she can't read my mind. Sure. Um, but, but I try to make, I try to be thoughtful when everything

Speaker 2: Yeah. If you didn't mean you could point out a dozen health risks or hazards or trip possibilities or whatever, and if you just to do everything [00:56:30] would be no life.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Marginalized risk, you know, that's what I try to do. And every decision I make is it, you know?

Speaker 2: Yeah. But assess and move on. And are you happy? Yes. Well then you did that one. Okay.

Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So

Speaker 2: What's, what's your hope for your kids? Like your grand scheme? How would you feel successful if they felt a particular way or what's your biggest hope for,

Speaker 3: Yeah, this is going to sound super, you know, a cliche, but I've been given this some thought, I think it's ultimately that they're, that [00:57:00] they're just happy. I think it's as much misery as I see coming through my office door, um, as much misery as I, you know, I don't see a whole lot of misery in my day to day, you know, personal life, but as much misery as I see, I'm like, man, I just hope they're happy. Like I don't care. I, I mean, I want them to obviously be independent, which they're fairly independent as much as independent as they can be as little kids, but I want them to be independent. Um, and I want them to be happy. I mean, that's really what it comes down to, I think. Oh, [00:57:30] so, you know, that's all I was just off. Nope. Not bleed, no. You know, not, uh, not draining my bank account and being happy. It's kind of selfish, but

Speaker 2: What, what do you think is the importance of resilience for your kids? Like making that a character trait?

Speaker 3: Um, I think it's very important. Uh, you know, and I assume you mean like resilience in like, you know, when they, uh, when there's some, [00:58:00] uh, challenge or some, some obstacle that's presented to them being resilient. I mean, is that what you're referring to? Yeah. I think that's super important. I think not understanding that they don't get every, every single thing they want. Um, and, and that's kind of come naturally because the two kids, you know, the twins and the three-year-old, I mean, there's just, they can't have everything.

Speaker 2: That's interesting. You know, and I didn't think about that. Like that just the volume of kids, you ads have half G [00:58:30] makes it difficult to provide everything they could possibly want. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And the good thing about having multiple children is your expectations get a lot lower than a mom expecting. So, you know, you got one kid, you better do it, right. I mean, you do one kid, you're going to screw it up. It's all on you. You have multiple kids, you can be like, well, look, that one was extra busy. I cried a lot. I couldn't give that one as much attention. I mean, again, it's not a, you know, that's how I see [00:59:00] it. Like it, you know, but yeah, you can't give them everything they want. And it's, it's interesting, like when you go home and go to my parents' house and like, they're trying to, like, I mean, every kid has to have every single thing and we're like, no, like that's just not how we do it. It's not because we don't want that. Well, but I think it's twofold again, the analysis one just not possible and two there's value to them sharing. Right. And I would like to think my kids are good shares from what I've observed and what [00:59:30] teachers and stuff have told me that they can't, you know, they got to share because we don't buy three of everything. Uh, grandma buys three of everything.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Sabotage their kids efforts on their granddad.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know. And it's something I, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So w when, when your kids are older, like what kind of father would you like to be looked back on? Like, what would you like for them to say about?

Speaker 3: So I [01:00:00] think the same things I would say about my father dead, he would do anything for me. He was always there always willing to listen and always willing to help find a solution to the problem. Right. I mean, that's, that's, uh, that's what I would say about, you know, what I see in my father. And that's what I think I want them to see in me. Right.

Speaker 2: You think, you think your kids can love you back as much as you love them.

Speaker 3: Um, Hmm. Hmm. [01:00:30] Not until I think they have. Hm. Well, see, I'm trying to get, well, I would say not until they have the perspective in which they could appreciate the love that a parent provides, which is something kids typically can't do. Right. And that's why, if we could, we wouldn't be such a holes throughout our childhood and getting, you know, if we, if we could, if we could bottle that and feed it to our, you know, eight year old so that they [01:01:00] can have that perspective, um, that would be great. And that'd save a lot of problems, but it's just not possible. So, yeah. I don't think to answer your question. No, but I think if they, if, uh, if a child were to love me as much as I would love them, it would have to be after they perhaps have children and can fully appreciate everything. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I think I'm thinking I'm in your camp in terms of that, but I find it, it's a difficult question to answer, but, um, so a couple of my short answers, [01:01:30] um, what's a gift that you think every father could have

Speaker 3: A gift, like a tangible gift. Sure. Um, just like father's day a shopping guide.

Speaker 2: If you could give a parent, I'm sorry. If you could give a gift to every father on the planet to help them be a better dad.

Speaker 3: Hmm. I do not know, um, to be a better dad, what would you need? [01:02:00] Um, it doesn't have to be something I have no. Um, I think probably having, uh, empathy, uh, for the chat. So being able to put yourselves in the shoe of your child and understanding how, what you [01:02:30] do has an impact on them. Yeah. And if you could have that, you'd be one way better of a father. Cause if you knew everything, how everything you did affected them, I mean, that, that's a crazy gift to give to somebody, but that would be

Speaker 2: Amazing. That would be something that if, if you could have that, that would make people way more self-aware cognizant and fortunately, a better parent. So I guess it would be empathy. Um, yeah. And then motivation [01:03:00] to do what you need to do, um, to make sure that what your kid is sensing, feeling, observing, um, is, is benefiting them. Right? Yeah. I think that's awesome. I actually, uh, had PR in workshopping with, uh, somebody talking about how can we make the world more empathetic? You know, it's like, what if at 18 we sent every single kid that graduated from high school on a series of three month endeavors where they go work in a hospital [01:03:30] or a church or a school somewhere in some third world country. And then tell me that they're not going to come back with a new perspective on the world and fellow man of course. And people like that would be better than retooling the entire education system.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And it's something that, you know, again, like if you ever asked yourself, like what have I, whenever I, when I've gone and volunteered and I don't do a whole lot of 'em, I'm terrible at that. Hopefully that's how, you know, you got stuff going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need to do better at it. Um, but whenever you go do those things, you [01:04:00] typically, when you leave, you're like, man, like you have to S you know, different perspective. Like that's, that's what it feels like. That's, you know? Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think you're absolutely spot on. It's true that,

Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure. So who's your favorite television dad?

Speaker 3: Favorite television dad. Hmm. That's a tough one. So I'm just trying to think television dad. I don't, I don't, I don't [01:04:30] think I have a good answer for that one.

Speaker 2: No movie dad, TV day, you didn't grow up watching some show that you're like that, that seems cool.

Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, I, I certainly do. Um, I just, nothing's jumping, nothing's jumping out at me that I would want to, I'm just trying to think here. I mean, I like, uh, I think I, you know, credit TV, dad, I guess when I I've been John, every Christmas is a Chevy chase, you know, cause of vacation, no

Speaker 2: Shortage of enthusiasm,

Speaker 3: [01:05:00] Always aiming to please, uh, doing whatever he can for the family, uh, sacrifice in his, uh, you know, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's kind of what you want. Uh,

Speaker 2: Dad loved

Speaker 3: Corker's will Clark.

Speaker 2: I haven't heard that. That might be one of my new favorite ones. That's fantastic. All right. The billboard question, you know, the billboard question? No. Yeah. So, you know, [01:05:30] 95, all the dads are driving 80 miles an hour. Mike dart got a billboard where he can put one piece of that advice on it.

Speaker 3: Um Hmm. Probably talk to your kid. Yeah. Talk to your kid and then not to, if you can't, if you can't get, you know, if you can't fully understand, you know, if you're not talking to your, your, your child, I think you're missing out on a [01:06:00] lot of, uh, useful information help you understand where they're coming from,

Speaker 2: The practicality that we've been talking

Speaker 3: About. Yeah, yeah. Communication. Right. And, and not to say that you could talk to your kid all the time, but I think it, I think it's a useful tool. I think it's a one, yeah. There's a whole lot to gain from talking to your children on as much as you possibly can. And that's something that Kim and I do incessant, we talk a lot anyway, mainly me. Uh, so we're always talking to the kids and I think it, you know, when we, and when [01:06:30] I see other parents talking to their kids, it does, it seems like the kids communicate better. Right. Not, not, not in all cases, but I think it certainly is helpful. Um, yeah. And, and, uh, you know, that's how we, that's how we communicate, how we're feeling. So I think it's important.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So, um, when do you feel the most loved?

Speaker 3: When do I feel the most loved? I mean, there's nothing, nothing beats I'm coming home after being gone, uh, for, you know, [01:07:00] a night. I mean, you know, even the day and the kids running up to you and giving you hugs. I mean, I don't think there's anything else, uh, that can quite possibly beat that. You know, maybe when you wake up in the morning, you know, it's, you know, when they're in the crib and they jump up and they smile and laugh and giggle and, you know, jump in their little bed or, you know, when they get older, they, you know, they, they wake up. I think, I think those are probably, um, some of the best moments and you feel loved, right? I mean, it's just pure, pure happiness, uh, that you, that you get [01:07:30] to experience. And, um, yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's something that not to, to degress, but in our, in our work, you know, and it's, this kind of goes along with like the lawyer, having kids will also, that goes the same for like a judge having children, you know, in printing county.

Speaker 3: And I, I can't speak to other candidates, but a lot of the juvenile, domestic relations judge don't have kids. And so we're doing these trials and we're trying to pick up on the nuances, like the baby monitor while a judge that doesn't have kids, baby model, what does [01:08:00] that mean? Uh, the nuances of trying to explain why, you know, maybe the person should have their visitation until Monday morning. And it gives them that extra morning, that extra night of putting their kids to bed that extra morning of them waking up and getting that smile. Right. And those are things that are hard, um, to express and to convey to somebody that doesn't have kids again, tougher for a judge, the lawyer, the question you had earlier, um, you know, there's, those wouldn't be something. So that's something that Kim and I like when we prep our clients and stuff, we really try [01:08:30] to focus.

Speaker 3: Cause we get that question like, um, you know, how did, how did the kids show they love, you know, or, you know, w how do you know your kid loves you? Right. Oh, they run up and give me a hug. Um, you know, we, we try to really focus on, um, elaborating on that too. Especially when we have a judge that doesn't have kids as to why that is so important, why it's important. Right. Um, yeah, it is certainly important, but yeah, that's probably when I feel most loved, I mean, last night I had all three of them laying in my lap. We were watching a movie. That was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. That's hard to beat [01:09:00] for many reasons. One, they're all sitting down too. They're not running around. And three, they're all, uh, content, you know, in one place, oh,

Speaker 2: Actually this, this one I have written down. So somebody else said it and because you have three kids, I wonder how you would, might react to it. So you're only as happy as you were saddest kid.

Speaker 3: Uh, disagree. Yeah. Yeah. Um, again, for me, [01:09:30] I'm happy if I got two out of three, happy, I'm happy now, could I be happier? Maybe, perhaps again, I, you know, I'm not going to take that for granted that I got two happy kids and, you know, whoever said that day, that may truly feel that. But I look, if one's crying and two are happy, I'm pretty happy. It's all perspective Now. Yeah. And now if all three are crying, you know, [01:10:00] heck if only one is smiling and two are crying, I'm still pretty happy playing

Speaker 2: Major league baseball.

Speaker 3: I'm good. Yeah. That's no problem for me. Uh, yeah. I mean, of course, like, you know, if the kid's like depressed and stuff and you know, and these are, I'm dealing little kids, right. I mean, their problems are only so big, but yeah. Obviously if I had a kid, the middle schoolers getting bullied or something, and I got to happy girl, you know, boys or girls. [01:10:30] Yeah. I think you could. But again, I, well now I think I'd still be happy that I got two happy kids.

Speaker 2: What's the checklist. Now, the things that you run down on when you've got an unhappy kid, it's like, check this, check that, check that, like, what's on that.

Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Um, you know, do they work? Do they want rice Krispies? They want Cheerios. Do they want milk and their Cheerios or rice Krispies? Um, now, I mean, mainly now it comes down. They're all communicating pretty well. Even Scotty she's, she's able to communicate pretty effectively. [01:11:00] Um, it's, you know, food, that's basically what it comes down to usually milk water, food. Um, sometimes you just got to recognize that there's nothing you can do. It's just gonna, they're just gonna have to cry, but yeah. But normally it comes in it right now. It's rice Krispies. Cheerios. Yeah. Water milk. Um, it's so messed up. I mean, this is how ridiculous it is at our house. I can't even make, and [01:11:30] let's have really think about this. And I, if I think about it, I could probably save some bread. Um,

Speaker 2: I don't know where

Speaker 3: You're going to make a sandwich, peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I got three different orders. I got one that wants only jelly. I got one that only wants peanut butter and then a long one then wants peanut butter and jelly. And I just, haven't taken the time to think about how I officially do that. I guess I could start cutting the bread in half, but then it's harder to spread spreading on half bread is not that crust helps it, but that's the [01:12:00] type of problems I'm dealing with right now that, uh, it's just crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2: From two pieces of peanut butter, two pieces of jelly, um, we'll have to, we'll have to break out. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Like how do you make, cause assuming the kid doesn't eat a full sandwich, you know, if you have to go back in the bread drawer and pull what I, you know, an extra piece of bread and do that, that's fine. Assuming they only eat half the half the sandwich. How many pieces of bread do you need? You need at least two. And then how do you, how do you mix and match that sandwich? I don't know. I haven't [01:12:30] given him much.

Speaker 2: I started to build an algorithm to figure out how to do that. And you're an attorney, but we deal in word.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I need to figure that out. Cause uh, that's been problematic recently. Just wasting

Speaker 2: Brown. Yeah,

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would just like to be able to make it quicker. That's the thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I need to find the hand fan equivalent to making peanut butter jelly, peanut butter jelly sandwich, And just force, [01:13:00] feed your kid. You're going to eat it because I'm having trouble introducing new foods to my kids. Will they try anything?

Speaker 3: Uh, they'll pretty much try anything. And I don't know why, if you ask me how you do that, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2: I don't know what to do about my kid.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I, you know,

Speaker 2: I just try to force it on them. Try to Brian. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And that's where like, I'm soft. Like if I'm like, no, you eat that peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And he's like, no, I won't only want jelly after [01:13:30] a few, uh, you know, uh, back and forth. I'll go get that. Julio.

Speaker 2: You can make your own jealous. Actually. We've gotten to that point with our kids where we can tell them to go get it themselves. She's like 4, 3, 4 years old. They're figuring it out. I look forward to that. Yeah. But we're still dressed now, even though they're perfectly capable of getting themselves dressed can, can, will or Nelly dressing.

Speaker 3: Yeah. That is a helpful tip. Just

Speaker 2: Takes 90 minutes for them to put their left shoe on their right foot.

Speaker 3: Yeah. [01:14:00] Yeah. There they've been dressing themselves for a little while, nearly quicker than William, but yeah, we got him potty trained. We feel like relatively soon that kind of naturally came. We tried to do force like, you know, crap in the underwear thing. Yeah. We gave up on that. You

Speaker 2: Just end up with a bunch of crappy

Speaker 3: Underwear. Yeah. It was not good. Yeah. I'll bet. You know, everything everywhere. Um, we gave up on that and then said it kind of naturally happened. And Nellie actually like would, would, you know, would pretty much be potty training. [01:14:30] William, just all of a sudden just came out of nowhere and started doing it. So we've got lucky either

Speaker 2: One of them regress.

Speaker 3: Not really. We still, I mean, they still have like a, they still wear the little diapers, the light diapers at night, just to make sure that we get tired. We can't, we just can't wash that many bed sheets. No, no.

Speaker 2: Yeah. My both my kids use bathroom, but Riley likes to go outside pee in the grass, pee in the grass. That's what he likes to do. But I pull it into my house last Wednesday to him taking a dump in the yard. [01:15:00] Oh my God. Yeah. Going poop in the yard.

Speaker 3: That's very, um, yeah. Yeah. Barbaric

Speaker 2: Part of me was proud of them.

Speaker 3: Now we've got that problem with William and I dunno, we have to address it. He likes yeah. When he has to go, he has to go to the playground. If we're at my parents' house, he goes. Yeah. And I think there's some, again, a lot of these things, I feel like we'll just they'll grow out of. I hope. Um, you know, we try to no, don't do that. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. At what point is it not a kid anymore? It's like, [01:15:30] he's too old to be doing that. I

Speaker 3: Don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Like shower, like showering with your kid. I had a conversation with a friend mine. Who's got a girl that was about my daughter's age. It's like, at what point is it weird to like get in the bathtub or shower? You know?

Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's pretty subjective. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm not coming in on that.

Speaker 2: I don't want to get too

Speaker 3: Deep. Let me just tell you this. I'm telling my kids while she privates wash, you know, wash, you know, whatever, whatever, you [01:16:00] know, try to get them to be as self-sufficient as possible. Um yeah. To avoid

Speaker 2: That makes perfect sense. Yeah. Good comment. Good and good lawyering. All right. So I'll, I'll jump to the last question, but first, thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it. Um, thanks for spending your time here. No problem.

Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure. I don't think I quite fit the build of what your podcast cast is intended to do, but I appreciate you reading.

Speaker 2: You don't fit anything perfectly. [01:16:30] No. Um, kids, kids, kids, kids, some message that you could pass along, whether it's a piece of advice or, you know, just something you'd like to say to generations on, you know, what, what's the kind of last thing you'd like all your kids, kids, kids to, to hear. Okay.

Speaker 3: Um, that's a tough question. Hmm. What would I want my kids to hear, to pass it [01:17:00] and pass that along to them? Um, that's tough. I don't know toddler. Yeah. I mean, pardon me wants to say something like these old people tell me, like enjoy the mom, you know, which is very helpful. It's like the easy answer. And I'm trying not to give like an easy answer, um, that has really no value or apple, you know, of course you could take what you want of it. I, you know, I don't know. That's tough. It's tough. What could I, what would I want them to [01:17:30] say? Not say, but I don't know. I hate to, I hate to be stumped on this question. I would like to be stumped.

Speaker 2: We can just have dead space, dead space.

Speaker 3: I mean, I guess just not to, not to repeat stuff I've said before, but I guess just try and be, um, aware and cognizant of the people around you and how, what you do has an effect on them. I guess, you know, not necessarily, I mean, I guess it is empathy, you know, be empathetic, be considerate. [01:18:00] Uh, I know that's not great advice per se, but I think it's important. Um, if my kids, uh, if they, if they walked away with one piece of advice that I had other than like, you know, enjoy each day type of stuff, it would be just try to put yourself in the shoes of other people and try to understand where they're coming from. Um, because I think it gives you a better perspective and I think it gives you a better, um, ability to make an informed decision [01:18:30] on, you know, what you should do.

Speaker 3: Right. And that's just, that's just stuff that, um, ideal, you know, I try to deal with on a regular basis trying to make people make the best decisions. But part of that is you have to consider how decisions you make have effect on other people. And so that's what I, I would pass along to them, sorry for that long, uh, awkward. Uh non-answer but that's a tough, it's like a it's part of the answer. Yeah. Yeah. That's, it's a tough question because it's, um, you know, there's a whole lot of things you could tell him that you would [01:19:00] want him to live by, but I think, you know, just being considerate and then being empathetic and, um, it'll, it would help guide them. And that's what I try to do. I've of course fail miserably all the time at doing that. But, um, I think in this day and age, and just seems like everyone's, uh, super self interested in and add some value if you're able to, uh, put the shoe on the other foot. I said, I guess for like,

Speaker 2: That's a better term. I think that's awesome. Yeah. I got like 15 more questions [01:19:30] I want to ask now, just based on that, we'll save that for another day when the kids are older and we've got

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And we can talk about how I, um, I ended up at the hospital and how, uh, you know, Kim had to be driven in an ambulance. Cause I wasn't at home. We can save that for another podcast. Good.

Speaker 2: And with that Easter egg wound.

Speaker 3: Alright, thanks for having me, Tyler. Thanks man.

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