Speaker 1: All right. Hey there, this is Tyler Ross learning to data, Tyler Ross. And I'm here today with Dr. Brooke Miller, a friend for a long time is that we were just talking about Matt when I was in high school, which was 20 years ago. Uh, but you are a family medicine doctor in Luray and little Washington, Virginia. Well, technically Washington, Virginia. We noticed little Washington. Uh, you are a parent to four children. You have three grandchildren, I believe four grand, four grandchildren. Yeah. And on top [00:00:30] of that, you have a long lineages of being a cattleman. Yeah. So thanks so much for being part of this.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Tyler. I really appreciate this. Just your, uh, your intro. I want to just give our viewers a little bit of history on Washington, little Washington. I
Speaker 1: Would love that because I need that history too.
Speaker 2: Um, back when my father was a boy, each school had H each town had a school, there was Berryville, Flint hill, [00:01:00] Washington, Woodville. They all had schools and Washington, Virginia was the county seat and probably the, the people in Washington vinegar. And you thought they were a little superior to the people in Sperry Ville. And so the people in Berryville as a dig nicknamed Washington, Virginia Little Washington. So it was actually a dig, no shooting. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember when I was in school, uh, I went to school [00:01:30] at Highland, as you might know, and people used to call it little Washington and I would get really mad, really mad. And David Norton, I know, you know, David Norton, we were friends in, in, in, in grade school. And, uh, he used to know they would get me mad and he would like try to get me really mad by calling me like some farmer hick,
Speaker 1: Which wasn't totally untrue. Right. Not
Speaker 2: True. Not untrue at all. Not true at all. [00:02:00] But, uh, yeah, a little Washington was actually, uh, a dig at the residence of Washington, Virginia from Sperry Ville. And not until the end, that little Washington became, you know, a name. Did it, was it known as like a, you know, an adoring trait, you know, little Washington, it, it started out as a dig. I had
Speaker 1: No clue. That's so funny to relate to that a little bit. My in-laws grew up in Gainesville and they knew lake Manassas is the reservoir. Now lake Manassas is [00:02:30] little Washington. It's the beautiful place that everybody wants to live or go to in that particular area. I did not realize he went to Highland though. Oh, you didn't?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I went to Highland. All my brothers went to Highland. I went to Holland.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so at what point did your family established roots in the, in Rappahannock county?
Speaker 2: About nine generations ago. No kidding. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. So what, what's it like growing up in a place where, I mean, Rappahannock small now, there's not a, [00:03:00] to my knowledge, there's not a single, um, stoplight there, so I can only imagine, um, you know, growing up there as a child, how rural and how small that must've felt.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nobody knew where Washington Virginia was when I grew up now, a lot of people know about it, where it is. Uh, but when I grew up, you telling me you were from Washington, Virginia. Nobody had a clue. And now it's like, I guess, because of the ANet little Washington, everybody knows about it because people from all over the world go there. [00:03:30] Um, but it was, it was definitely small town America. Um, it was the country. It still is the country, but it was really the country back then. Okay.
Speaker 1: Do you still live on the farm that you grew up in or? Yeah. No kidding. And that's been a generational farm. Ginger hill, angus.com is the website.
Speaker 2: Yes. Ginger lingus.com. Um, the farm that I, I, uh, and my wife and I live on, uh, was purchased by my mom and dad, uh, [00:04:00] in 1961 or 62. Yeah. Um, but the other part of the farms did your language was what my grandfather has owned since 1947.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's so cool. I, I, I appreciate a multi-generational growth in one area being only the first generation leave. Well, so, so you left, I mean, at least the area for college, you [00:04:30] went to tech and then UVA for medical school. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. So how did you feel leaving that small little town to go to? I don't know how many students tech had
Speaker 2: Got it at about 20,000 when I was there. Uh, I was excited. It was awesome. My brothers took me to a football game when I was still in high school and I was like, this is where I want to go. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Ah, that's awesome. And then, so your, your family profile is you and two brothers? Yeah. Okay. Yep. And [00:05:00] then you went to tech studied, I assume. Pre-med or biology,
Speaker 2: Like a tech to, uh, to actually to be a veterinarian. And, um, once I got down there, my roommate, a guy that I befriended, he was a sophomore and I was a freshman. We were friendly and we sort of buy it. Wasn't on the quarter system. Second quarter, I moved in with him and he just happened to be a pre-med student. His father was a surgeon, a burn surgeon at MTV, [00:05:30] and we started hanging out and, um, I got interested in medical school and, you know, everybody's got an advisor, a curriculum advisor. I didn't even go see my advisor because he had it all lined out. And I just did what he had done that year before,
Speaker 1: Uh, up until then your entire life, you grew up on a farm working with cattle. Um, I make an assumption that that was your plan was to continue working the farm. [00:06:00] Yeah. Go be a veterinarian.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I loved it. Um, you know, I spent a lot of time with my dad. Uh, we had that in common. We, I just loved going out on the farm and, you know, checking cattle, looking at things, just being outside. And one day I was a little bit, I don't know how old I was. I was probably not more than 10 or 11. He said, what do you want to do when you grow up? So I said, I want to raise cattle dad. He said, you better find a [00:06:30] good job.
Speaker 1: And so that, and that's when it was time to go find.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I always knew that. I always knew that I had to, uh, I had to do something else, um, in order to be able to afford to be, uh, they call it a gentleman farmer, but I don't think, I mean, you get your, I guess the gentleman farmer doesn't get his cow on his hands. Let go,
Speaker 1: Oh, you're in it. I know
Speaker 2: That now. No I'm in it. And, uh, uh, yeah, it's [00:07:00] just one of the things I love to do. Or there are a lot of things in my life as you know, that I love to do. I'm a pretty multi-dimensional and, uh, that's just one of the things that I, that I love to do. It's a lot, it's sometimes it's just too much work, but you know, you take the good with the bad.
Speaker 1: You're also one of the founding members of, uh, the what's the association
Speaker 2: Called United States Cattleman's association. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So w when did that start? And for what purpose?
Speaker 2: Um, it was a spinoff [00:07:30] of, uh, of, uh, of, uh, of an association called RPF USA. And, uh, I was a member of RPF USA. Um, and the founding, the founder of RPF USA was a guy, uh, look up to and still look up to. And, um, there was sort of a squabble in the organization directions, which direction you're going to go. And so, uh, they decided to found a new organization [00:08:00] called the United States Cattleman's association and sort of naturally went with them. And, um, yeah, 2004 or five I think is when, uh, we founded that organization. And I wasn't real active for quite a few years cause I was doing what you're doing right now, being a dad. Um, but then, uh, became more active probably eight, nine years ago and just sorta moved up through the organization. They identified as me as someone that, uh, [00:08:30] they thought I had leadership ability, so cool sort of natural thing.
Speaker 2: There, we have things called fly-ins fly-ins are work cattle producers from all over the country, come to Washington, DC and lobby on behalf of the cattle industry. And, uh, being in close proximity to Washington DC, I didn't have to fly in. I just drove in. We'd go to all of those and got to know, get to know a lot of great people all over the country. It's amazing. The number of people that [00:09:00] you, uh, get to know, just being in the cattle industry and just being active in the cattle industry. The reason we started was basically, um, our industry is dominated by mega corporations that have, um, have monopolies. And the prices you see in the grocery store for beef are not reflective of what farmers get and get paid. Um, it's absurd. Uh, there are four major [00:09:30] packing corporations, two of which are multinational Brazilian companies.
Speaker 2: Um, I guess Tyson's is, is, and then there's, uh, national beef, but, uh, there's JBS, which is a Brazilian company, uh, Manford, which is a Brazilian company and then Tyson and, uh, national. And, um, two of those companies are owned by foreign countries and they basically control the protein industry in the world. [00:10:00] And, um, you know, they control our food supply. They don't compete, you know, we've been subsidized, they have been subsidized, uh, uh, JBS the, the, the owners and founders of JBS actually, uh, spent some time in Brazilian prison for, uh, they got caught, uh, bribing the president of Brazil to hurt. And they, they, uh, they used a lot of government money to build their organization. And, um, they basically Rob [00:10:30] in the United States, they Rob wealth out of rural America because rural America is so dependent on agriculture and the cattle industry and when farmers or ranchers are making a profit, they reinvest it.
Speaker 2: You know, they, they buy tractors, they build buildings, they buy, you know, they, they hire labor. Uh, they expand their operation. Um, they buy pickups, um, and, uh, when they're not doing that, they're just barely making it by. And that's what they've been doing for the last [00:11:00] 15, 20 years has gotten really, really bad because those four companies control about 85% of the protein industry in the world. Wow. And they basically just don't compete against one another. They have, there's no competition. It's really unsettling. Yeah. And, and, and unfortunately our government sort of, uh, help them do it because they thought, okay, we need, we need cheap food. We need efficiency. And bigger is better and more efficient. And those big corporations have high paid [00:11:30] lobbyists. And they go in and they basically write laws for these congressmen who don't understand it. And they sell them a bill of goods.
Speaker 2: But since COVID when COVID hit, um, a year and a half ago, was it two and a half ago? Yeah. Year and a half ago, we saw huge disruptions in the supply chain because these big mega corporation, these big plants were going, uh, offline because they had an outbreak and COVID, and we saw a huge [00:12:00] disruption in the supply chain. And so what these big companies did was, uh, they said, Hey, we can't take your cattle feed, Mr. Feeder, we can't take your cattle. They knocked the price down, even lower on the cattle that they were already stealing and same thing for the, uh, the consumers. So they said, Hey, we don't have any beef man. Uh, you saw beef prices go through the roof. So they were making $1,500 an animal. And they were slouched [00:12:30] slaughtering hundreds of thousands of animals a week. And they're making 1500 thousand, $1,500 on animal. They were, I mean, the, the profits were absolutely absurd and the farmers and ranchers are getting screwed. So were the consumers.
Speaker 1: So, so if, if you were to give a piece of advice to the average consumer, let's say above average consumer, not your, not your McDonald's consumer, but your grocery store prepare their own food at home consumer, what would you recommend that they do to support sustainable [00:13:00] agriculture?
Speaker 2: Uh, find a farmer and buy local, buy local, buy local, because you know, most farmers and ranchers have been on their ranches and farms for, for generations. They take great care of the lion. We have a saying in agriculture that, uh, you know, we're ranchers, we're farmers and ranchers were the original environmentalist. Um, so buy local, you'll support your community. Um, you'll support the economy, the local economy, [00:13:30] the, of the community and, uh, and
Speaker 1: Families instead
Speaker 2: Of corporations. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And if you do buy beef from the grocery store demand, you know, where it comes from, because right now there's so much deception in labeling of beef in the grocery store, they can label it product of the USA when it could be coming from anywhere, you know, Brazil, Canada, Mexico, Australia, um, south America, um, [00:14:00] all they have to do, uh, to label it product USA is repackage it. So
Speaker 1: You recently did a podcast, uh, to, for anybody that wants to get more into the weeds on cattle, in the cattle business, what was the name of that podcast? Underground?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, uh, uh, I think it was the second podcast that they produced.
Speaker 1: Oh, wonderful. Yeah. It was fun to listen to. And I learned a lot, there's some jargon in there that was above my head, but it was fun to listen to because I'm interested in health and food and [00:14:30] your commitment as a doctor to health. And also as a cattleman, uh, I'd be interested to hear your quick spin when you were, you, you went very intensely with a carnivore diet for a period of time. Um, and you'd actually did a podcast, also a Dr. Baker baker
Speaker 2: Podcast with me RX and also Dr. Sean Baker who introduced me to the carnivore diet.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So for anybody listening, well, actually, I'm going to tee this up for you. I don't know what you're going to say, but I think I know what you're [00:15:00] going to say. The carnivore diet in my understanding is that of course, mostly beef, chicken and all these things, but do you perceive or see some agenda from people that are promoting like cricket, protein and pea protein and all these other things, does that feel like it's intentionally there to undercut the meat industry? Or is this just like conspiracy theory stuff that somebody has infiltrated my head with?
Speaker 2: Well, everybody [00:15:30] wants to make a profit. So people that produce plant food or over these big corporations that, that can basically plant food is, um, fairly cheap to make. And the profit margins are a lot higher on that, uh, nutritionally. They're not nearly as nutrient dense as, as protein and fat. Um, and it's people just wanting to make a profit. There are people that are environmental extremists that really believe what they're doing. [00:16:00] Um, but you know, animal agriculture done in the right way is very environmentally sound and, uh, whatnot. And they, they make a lot of false accusations. They're just trying to promote their, their agenda.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So any anybody listening and encourage you to check out the podcast of Angus underground, meet RX and a Dr. Sean Baker for more on those particular things, but, uh, so you graduated from tech, you go, do you immediately go to UVA?
Speaker 2: [00:16:30] Yup. Yup. Yup. Uh, uh, in retrospect, I'm glad I did it, but in retrospect I needed a T a year off. Cause I was, I was really tired of studying all the time and I didn't, I don't guess I did study all the time cause I had a lot of fun, but it just seemed that way, you know? And, uh, I, it would've been good to take a year off, but I'm glad I got through when I did. I was a pretty young man when I was, when I finished my residency, [00:17:00] I was, uh, 29 years old. I wasn't even 30. When did you meet
Speaker 1: Your wife and
Speaker 2: Met her in school? Yeah, I met her. Um, I met her at the gym at university of Virginia, uh, the August of my, uh, second year of medical school. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. This sounds like a memory that you have very vivid in your mind. You got to tell me about
Speaker 2: Just listening to you. How'd you know that man, uh, I was playing [00:17:30] baseball with some buddies that I grew up without Rappahannock. We had a baseball team, uh, in the side, come home and play with them in the summers. And, uh, I had broken my finger and dislocated my finger. Yeah. And I just, I had my finger in a splint and this was when I did traditional weight lifting and didn't do the CrossFit that I do now. Um, and I was sitting there and I was on the preacher batch and it was doing my curls [00:18:00] like this. And I curls comes this fricking gorgeous woman with this hot candy Stripe, short shorts. And I just like all my like tongue came out of my mouth. So I'm
Speaker 1: Probably got a hell of a workout. The rest of that
Speaker 2: Time for as long as that's the first time I saw her. And then I would always go to the gym, hoping that she would be there and just trying to strike up a conversation [00:18:30] with her. And gosh, we probably, I probably had very small casual conversations with her for six months before I asked her out. I remember she said, she remembers this. She was a bench pressing and she was bench pressing. And it was with United spot people. I went over and I said, Hey, you want me to spot you? She goes, yeah, sure. And she spotting and she looked like she's not breathing. And so I just said, breathe. That her off. [00:19:00] She thought I was arrogant to te telling her she knows how to lift and all that stuff. But, uh, I finally won her over. I don't know how I did it, but I finally won her over. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you recall the first day?
Speaker 2: The first day? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Just take her out to eat, go to a
Speaker 2: Movie. We went to see a band. Oh yeah. We went to see a band and uh, she, her impression of me changed dramatically. No, no, it was, [00:19:30] it was, she just saw how much of a gentleman I was and how polite I was. And, and, uh, and I took her home and I kissed her on the cheek. Didn't try to get any lip or anything. Definitely no tongue. And, uh, she goes, wow, that's pretty good. I says, everybody that I've been out with has tried to get in my pants first date or something, you know? Um, but now, I mean, I could tell she was, uh, she was special when I first saw her. And then when I got to talk to her and [00:20:00] see what kind of person she was. So
Speaker 1: You you're in medical school, you meet and you're, who is to be your wife? How long after?
Speaker 2: Uh, we actually got married our fourth year. We started dating my second year and we got, we got married our fourth year.
Speaker 1: Okay. So did you guys do your residencies and same place? Different?
Speaker 2: Well, she, she was a nurse. She's a, she's a registered nurse and she was in nursing school and she was actually in nursing school when I was in medical school. And I had no idea what she was a nursing student until [00:20:30] we started dating. Um, and then she graduated from nursing school my fourth year, uh, at the beginning of my fourth year. And, uh, so then, uh, we got married, uh, in July of 1985. Okay. And, uh, uh, yeah, it's all history since then. Good.
Speaker 1: So you were in July of 85, you get married. Are you currently working [00:21:00] in family medicine in re
Speaker 2: No. No. At night, July of 1995, I was a fourth-year medical student. Oh,
Speaker 1: Gotcha.
Speaker 2: Okay. And, uh, so she supported us our first year through her nursing. Uh, she started working at, uh, at university of Virginia, uh, on different floors. I think she worked in urology. And so she, uh, she supported us our first, my first year. And then, uh, you know, after the, after my fourth year of medical school, you, you go through something called the match, which [00:21:30] is where you go out and you basically match with a, uh, a residency program. And our first year was I did a rotating internship in Newport news, um, and, uh, at Riverside hospital. And that was a good year. We had our first son David there when, when we, when we, uh, we were there and then we moved to Richmond and, uh, finished, completed a family practice residency, uh, at, um, Chippenham hospital [00:22:00] division of, uh, medical college of Virginia.
Speaker 1: So how did having David change the dynamic of everything when you, I mean, I can only imagine what that effort is putting in medical school. Uh, basically one, one person. I mean, w what's the disruption like that you remember the most?
Speaker 2: Well, all I have to say is I have the greatest wife in the world. Um, I did my thing. I, I, I concentrated [00:22:30] on, I mean, I was a father, but most of the responsibility was, was on an yeah. And, uh, uh, for most of the time she was, she was raising the kids while I was focusing on my career, although I was a great father and a great husband, but her primary. So it didn't disrupt me, uh, my life a whole lot, uh, to be quite honest,
Speaker 1: Which, which kid was it that you fell asleep during their birth? It was two of
Speaker 2: Them. Two of them.
Speaker 1: [00:23:00] I understand. You were on call all night. No,
Speaker 2: No, no. What happened was with David was I'd taken all week off, you know, on baby watch. Yeah. And there was a third year resident who are, uh, love admiring Bobby Stokes. I don't know if you'd ever heard of Bobby Stokes. Bobby Stokes was actually, uh, friends with my wife and because his little brother, Ricky Stokes, you ever hear Ricky Stokes? Oh, wow. You're not very much of a university of Virginia basketball fan. [00:23:30] Bobby Stokes was, uh, a player for university of Virginia. He was a point guard for him and he hit during his freshman year. He, uh, had some big shots and beat university of North Carolina in the, uh, in the ACC tournament. And his little brother, Ricky was in, uh, aunts grade at Highland Springs, high school in Richmond. So anyway, Bobby was, I always looked up to Bobby and Bobby was, uh, uh, two years ahead of me in medical school at university of Virginia. And he happened to be doing a family practice residency in Newport news at the same place I [00:24:00] was doing it. And, uh, it was his bachelor party. No kidding. Yeah. Bobby had a bachelor party. We had a bachelor party for Bobby and all, we all went out to this bachelor party with Bobby and I got hammered.
Speaker 1: Like you do with
Speaker 2: A bachelor. I got hammered. And Bobby actually brought me home to my apartment and I walk in and I'm an abbreviated. And Anne says, she's in labor [00:24:30] and I fell asleep. Yeah. And then finally, I, uh, she labored through the night and I was beside her. Right. All the time, just not awake. And, uh, just a little bit before daylight, uh, she woke me up, said it was time to go to the hospital. So I did, I was not intoxicated at that point in time. And, uh, I, uh, her thank God. Her mother came down from Richmond and was with her and I [00:25:00] went to the call room and went to sleep again. And then they call me about an hour before the baby was born. And I was in the, you know, so yeah, I get, get a hard time about that. But then the next time we have a pregnancy, Amanda, you know, Amanda, um, we were in Richmond and I was, um, it was on a, it was a full moon. I remember as a full moon, late may. And I come home from being on call all night plus [00:25:30] working there. So I'd been up for 36 hours getting ready to go, but go to sleep. We're getting ready to go to bed. And she looks at me and she said, I'm in labor
Speaker 2: And you're sober, I'm sober, but I'm like punch drunk, you know? And I'd been up for 36 hours. And, uh, so we go to the hospital and again, I go to the call room and go to sleep and her mother comes over, but I was there and present for the last 200%.
Speaker 1: You were, [00:26:00] I mean, being a doctor and going through medical school, like the, the, the physical nature of this is I'm sure it was almost very well, I don't know if boring is the right word, but very typical and not unusual at all. Like for me, seeing, seeing my kids head crown out of my wife was like a moving wild experience because I'd never seen anything like that. So like, w w what's your memory, do you remember being moved or flooding?
Speaker 2: My children were born. Yeah. [00:26:30] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I delivered some children. I delivered a lot of children in medical school and then, and also in residency. Um, but I didn't deliver my own children. Yeah. I was not going to do that. Was that would've been, I would've been too nervous. Uh, no, it was amazing. Absolutely amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So did you
Speaker 2: Let dad, dad cut the cord dad cut the cord. Yeah, that was, I think that was just coming in Vogue, uh, when I was, when I was a new dad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So how, um, you're, you're at this point, [00:27:00] are you back at your, well, of course you had David and then Amanda, a couple years later and you're living back at the farm and then you practicing
Speaker 2: Excellent. Um, in 1989, I finished my family practice residency at MCV, and we moved back to the farm and I, and I, uh, I interviewed, uh, uh, several places around here. I actually interviewed with Steve on Elton, but at that point in time, I, I wanted to do emergency medicine because I'd done a lot of moonlighting. And in retrospect, I would love to have made [00:27:30] that different decision than going in with Steve, uh, cause he's a great guy. Um, and they have a great practice. Um, but I, I ended up doing emergency medicine in Colepepper, uh, where we do 12 and 24 hour shifts Culpepper at that point in time was a small enough, uh, hospital where you could do a 24 hour ship and get a couple hours sleep every night. Um, but then we ended up going 12 cause it got a lot busier. Um, and, uh, [00:28:00] yeah, it was, we were, we were there for a couple of years and Ella was born in 1991. She was born in, uh, during a blizzard. Um, I remember
Speaker 1: That blizzard, the name
Speaker 2: Of smell at the time Dr. Myers was her, uh, it was Myers and young were together. You're a warrantee and they were together and she actually was Dr. Young's patient, but Dr. Meyers was on call that day and there was a blizzard and he said, uh, you want to have the baby today? And she said, yeah. So, um, [00:28:30] she was induced and Ella was induced and I was, um, I was there. Thank goodness. Uh, and then, uh, Henry was born two years later, um, during a drought, um, Dr. Bell, um, delivered Henry and actually it's interesting because Dr. Bell delivered, um, Ellis first child to yeah. Developed Catherine, uh, developed, delivered Catherine Bell
Speaker 1: And Myers delivered my kids also.
Speaker 2: Oh, did they? Yeah. Yeah. My, [00:29:00] my, we both think they're awesome. Um, great, great. Yeah. Um, Anne had a particular, uh, connection with, uh, with Dr. Meyers. I think he's just recently, uh, recently retired, but uh, we hold him in high esteem and
Speaker 1: Dr. Bell moved from fourth year up to Haymarket, I believe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He, when, when, when my granddaughter was, was born, um, I was obviously there and Dr. Bell had come in and I can't believe [00:29:30] this guys are spending the night in the hospital still. It's just like, that would, at that age, that would be like, I do not want to do that. Spend nights in the hospital. Oh
Speaker 1: My gosh. Yeah. To mention having their own families as well. Yeah. So how so, how did, um, having kids impact your life the most like, uh, in terms of not, not like emotionally, but like practically
Speaker 2: Guys grounded me. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I was, you know, I was pretty, pretty much a party [00:30:00] boy growing up and, uh, marrying my wife, um, was definitely a positive in my life as far as my life direction, but I still was a party boy, but when I got the kids, it's like, okay, now it's serious. You gotta, you gotta be a good role model, you know, because so many kids see what their parents do. Yeah. Um, and, uh, so yeah, it was, you know, it was just [00:30:30] another, another step in life growing up in life and maturing in life.
Speaker 1: Did that feel like a flip switch flip, or did it feel like it's something that kind of needed to be conditioned out of you?
Speaker 2: I can't remember. I don't really remember. Um, but, uh, how was it with you?
Speaker 1: Uh, I was so excited. Like we were planning CERN and I was like, it was in that place that I was really, I wanted to get married and have kids. And so we got married and had kids [00:31:00] and, uh, so my life was kind of designed towards doing that already. Um, so I'd, I'd gotten my, my partying out of the way, uh, up until a couple of when Sarah and I were together, we had a lot of fun partying and then we got married and then suddenly we like kind of grew up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was, I think it was the same thing with us. I never thought that I never, I mean, I thought at some point in time I get [00:31:30] married, but you know, when I saw Anne and started going out with her, I knew she was the one he was like, yeah. You know, I remember we were, we were, uh, at the wedding and everybody's like, are you nervous? Are you nervous? I said, I'm yeah. I'm not nervous. She might not show up. That's the only way
Speaker 1: She did it for kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. She's, she's, she's an awesome mother. She gets the mother of the year award. She still, she still takes care of me, you know, 100% of the,
Speaker 1: Yeah. And now she's got to take care of four kids and four grandchildren now.
Speaker 2: [00:32:00] Yeah. She's got a, we've got, uh, Ella and Matt's little girl home with us this weekend. Cause they went to new Orleans and uh, she's a handful, but we love, love every bit of her.
Speaker 1: And so what's, what's the most distinct difference between raising kids that age and being a grandfather to kids that age?
Speaker 2: Well, I remember when my kids were that age is like, you want them to be perfect, you know, you want every do everything. Perfect. Yeah. Um, and [00:32:30] everything you did when you were at that age, you remember it as perfect, but I'm sure it was anything. But, so I was a perfectionist with my kids and I wanted to be the best they could be at everything they ever did and do go, and with your grandkids, you just, you just want to play with them and had enough. I have fun, you know, and I wish I was a little bit more like that with my, with my family, with my kids. Um, cause I was involved in their life tremendously, but I probably was a little overbearing at times.
Speaker 1: They have, uh, [00:33:00] some, uh, bounce back with you or a pushback when you were, uh, putting the,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know it, you know, the boys know the girls once they hit 15 or 16, dad didn't know anything. Yeah. That was probably hard. I was probably more involved with them for some reason. It just naturally I was not in their high school years. I was not coaching either one of my sons. Uh, but in the high school years I was involved in coaching my daughters. [00:33:30] And so that probably had something to do with it. Um, yeah. I pushed him a lot. I pushed him really hard and uh, it wasn't until they went to college, you know, then came back that they say, Hey, you know, dad's not so bad after all,
Speaker 1: Um, I'm being introduced to that world now, uh, coaching my kid. And uh, my dad was of course my coach and a lot of sports and it was the best thing and one of the worst things at the same [00:34:00] time. Absolutely. Um, so do you have any advice for me and anyone else in my position in terms of coaching? My kids?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can. There's one thing that stands out in my mind that did me a world of good. Um, I was coaching my son, David. I was in little league. I coached all of them. Um, before I was talking about it in high school, but uh, and little league, I was coaching David's baseball team and I was one intense dude. Yeah. I mean, [00:34:30] I mean, you've been around me, you know, how intense I am sure. Too intense. And the kids were not performing and I was just on just obnoxiously on them. Well, my wife happened to be videotaping the game. Yeah. And we went home and watched the video tape and I was literally embarrassed at my behavior. Whoa. Yeah. It's like, you gotta be kidding, man. These are little kids. Why are you? [00:35:00] W you know, they couldn't, I was so intense on them that they couldn't relax and play the sport. And I realized that, so, you know, give them instruction, don't take it personal when they don't do everything. Just like, like you, you taught them or like you tried to teach them, um, try to let them have fun. And they play a lot better that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: How do you, how do you think you can keep a kid coachable? Like, so that they'll listen to other coaches?
Speaker 2: Oh [00:35:30] gosh, that's a tough one. I think if you, I think if you figured that one out, you'd be the best coach in the world,
Speaker 1: You know, coach coachability. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, you gotta, I don't know, you gotta keep their interest. Um, and the other thing is, is, is as a coach, I've remembered that, is that doing it rather than telling them how to do it. In other words, get them to practice over and over and over the proper [00:36:00] way to do something, as opposed to just telling them nobody's showing and letting them practice that what's the,
Speaker 1: What's a skill that you particularly enjoyed passing on,
Speaker 2: Um, or teaching as far as coaching,
Speaker 1: Anything really could be writing, coaching, you know, swinging whatever, you know, whatever birthing calves, you know, anything,
Speaker 2: Everything. I mean, I'm just a natural born coach [00:36:30] and a teacher. I just, uh, I just everything that, that I'm interested in and passionate, and I try to pass it on to anybody. That's interested to be quite honest, anybody that's interested, whether it's my kids, uh, friends, uh, people that, you know, that want to learn about this or that I'm just, you know, medical students, uh, nurse practitioners, students. Um, yeah. I just, I'm just, I like teaching.
Speaker 1: You're really doing, you're a good student.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anxious for information [00:37:00] and yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, I was a good student and everything, whether it be sports or academics, um, you know, I could, I would watch the best of the best on TV and then go out and try to emulate them. You would, I'm sure you were that kind of guy try to emulate somebody and do something like that. They do. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So now that your kids are grown, um, how do you feel your role as a dad has changed from raising kids to having adult [00:37:30] children?
Speaker 2: Um, well, first of all, my kids teach me stuff all the time. Yeah. And so it's a two way street now. Um, and growing up the kids, the kids taught me a lot of stuff. Um, how they acted handled themselves. Um, so it's a two rate. It's more of a two way street now. And, uh, if I have something that I see that's going on, that they want them to know, you just have to be a little [00:38:00] more subtle about it. Now don't beat them over the head, but just start to try to get your point across where, um, there'll be more receptive to it.
Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I, I, this goes back a little bit to the sports and your kids and everything, but I've been instructed to ask about the, going to the car speech after a softball game, [inaudible] done a little inquiries with your kids.
Speaker 2: Um, Ella,
Speaker 1: Ella might've suggested,
Speaker 2: Um, [00:38:30] well, I, I, I coached both of my one year, had the softball at the girls on the softball team. We had a softball team and also boys on the baseball team and the girls were come to the boys games and the boys would come to the girls games. And, uh, my, uh, my boys were out there and we were, I don't know, we weren't doing real well. And so I called time out and called anybody into the mound or [00:39:00] the rubber, you know, it was a flat field, one amount then. But, uh, and I got a little rough on him. Yeah. Probably used some words that you shouldn't use around kids. And, um, well, first of all, let me back back up. The girls, actually, I, I, I did it to them first time they weren't playing well. And I walked out and told them, I said, you know, they were little girls that wouldn't get his rough language [00:39:30] with them. And I said, you guys, you guys are not concentrating. You're not focusing. You're not playing well. She's if you guys don't start focusing and playing better and try and get this a little better, I'm going to go to the car and, and just, I'm just going to the car.
Speaker 2: So then the next week, uh, the boys are doing the same thing and I went out and I was, I was getting on them big time in a undertone, you know? And I walk off the field and Ella looks at me and said, dad, you [00:40:00] give him the going into the car speech
Speaker 1: Version of that.
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, like it wasn't going to the car speech. It was, I'm going to kick your butt.
Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah. There's the little gold you get from your kids.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Ella's got so many Ella isms. We've got so many El isms. It's, uh, it's incredible. The things that she would come up with and, and talk about. Uh,
Speaker 1: So you, you [00:40:30] grew up on the farm, the kids grew up on the farm. What do you think is the biggest difference in the context of raising your kids and the way you were raised? Like, what's, what's your in the same place, but it's different times.
Speaker 2: Well, I always had it a lot harder than my kids.
Speaker 2: Well, no, we tried to raise them up. Uh, pretty similarly. Yeah. Um, they had responsibilities. Um, they grew up on the farm. [00:41:00] They grew up working. They grew up working with dad on the farm. Um, and the same thing as I did with my dad, it was a lot of time. It was time, well spent. He didn't re they didn't realize it was time spent with dad at that point in time, they thought it was just work. Uh, but now they look back on it and, uh, you know, they used to, not a lot, they were good, they were good kids, but they were, there were some jobs that they would complain about that weren't the most pleasant jobs, like, uh, using creosote on a, on a board fence where they'd get it all over him. You remember Henry got it all over him. One time we just had to shave his head, all hair off of [00:41:30] him.
Speaker 2: Um, so it was, it was very similar, very similar, just a little bit. Furthermore, technically advanced, you know, from when I was a kid versus when they were kids. And now that it's funny because, you know, they all bring their friends home. At least they did during college, they'd bring their fence home. And their friends would tell me about stories that they told their friends. And it was like, I thought you hated that. But they were like, they were like using it as a bat red badge of courage, you know, that they had to do this or had [00:42:00] to do that. Um, so I think it was pretty similar.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. How about, um, I mean, we, you and I could go down the rabbit hole pretty quickly on things, but let's, uh, so let's say in the world, the context of the world, uh, raising course, we can go back in time. So we don't have to talk about, now we can talk about that nineties. Um, but how, how different was it raising kids in the nineties versus when you were being raised as a kid? Like, what do you think is the biggest,
Speaker 2: Oh, God, it was huge. It was, um, you know, in the nineties I need even more so now, [00:42:30] um, you have to be so much more worried about safety and what's going on in the world. Yeah. Um, especially with social media and the internet. Um, but you know, when I was growing up, we had, we were, we were just wild dogs, man. We, we we'd, my dad would, we'd go out and we had to make our own entertainment and we'd have our bikes and we'd go out into town and we'd meet [00:43:00] our friends. And this was actually Washington. Virginia was actually, uh, a residential town. Now it's more of a tourist town. Um, but we had our friends in, in, in town and we'd meet up every day and we'd play baseball or football or hunting, you know, hide and seek at night or army tag or something like that. And we would leave home. We'd come home from school. Or we finished working during the day. We'd leave home and wouldn't come home until late at night. And if my dad wanted us, he had this amazing [00:43:30] ability to whistle really loud, and you could hear it all over. Town would just whistle and it's like, time to go see you guys, there were two it's
Speaker 1: Time to go.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, whereas my kids, I knew where they were all the time. Yeah. Just about all the time. I'm sure there were times where they told me they were someplace and where someplace else who knows. Uh, but I pretty much knew where they were all the time and now it's even much more so, I mean, uh, but we, we, we just roamed when I was a kid, uh, it was fun. It was a lot of,
Speaker 1: [00:44:00] What do you think was the more, uh, well, okay, so that sounds like it advantage Brooke. Yeah. So what about disadvantage? What do you think is the advantage that they have that you would have liked to?
Speaker 2: Oh, I lived in Washington, Virginia. I mean, we were the last place to learn about anything. We didn't have social media. There was no internet. There was no nothing. I mean, we were the, we were the Hicks from the sticks and, uh, the country kids now because of the connectivity have all the advantages of, of, [00:44:30] in that city kids had, uh, except even more. They have, they, they enjoy a little more personal freedom because it's traditionally a little safer to live, to grow up in the, in the country as far as, you know, predators and things like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, how about, uh, differences in like the evolution of how kids are punished? Like growing up?
Speaker 2: Yeah. You touch your kid now you get reported to social service. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: Do you get spanked as a kid with a belt?
Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:45:00] And I didn't grow up hating my mom and dad. My mom never, my mom washed my mouth out with soap a couple of times. Um, but my dad, my dad, he was, he was the disciplinarian. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, uh, I, I might've spanked my kids once or twice, but I felt bad doing it. I couldn't, I couldn't do that. You know, uh, my wife would, uh, have the little plastic spatula [00:45:30] and that would just scare the heck out of him because she would smack on the rest of the, but with that. Um, but I don't think my kids, I don't think they've ever spanked their children.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I did. Mike, you know, of being of similar generation, the only thing I've ever done is bite my kid harder than he bit me is pop them on the butt every now and again, to remind them of something. But yeah, that's a big difference, but it sounded like you had a tremendously respectful relationship with your dad and spent a lot of time together and [00:46:00] yeah. That didn't create any,
Speaker 2: No, it didn't create any problems at all. He was, he was my hero. He probably went overboard a couple of times on the spankings, but, uh, um, I wasn't scarred emotionally by any stretch of the imagination. I just didn't do it again.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Seems like a pretty effective,
Speaker 2: It was effective its effect. It was effective. It's just, you know, there are a lot of great things about present day, but there are really a lot [00:46:30] of screwed up things about present day.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, um, looking back, um, what are some of the milestones you remember for your kids
Speaker 2: Milestones for my children, obviously when they started walking yeah. When they started talking. Um,
Speaker 1: Um, do you remember any first words? Any what? Any of their first words?
Speaker 2: No, I don't sorry. What do you remember first reverse words, your children? I don't know. [00:47:00] Well, it's probably like mama. Daddy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I have, I have more vivid memories of, uh, like a couple of weeks ago. I referred to something as being particularly difficult in my own expressive way. And my, my daughter said, yeah, that is hard.
Speaker 2: [inaudible]
Speaker 1: The word?
Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:47:30] I'd probably say that word way too many times. And I really, my grandchildren growing up, I, I, uh, I really that's one of my faults as my, as my trash mouth. Yeah. And, uh, I try to work on that. My oldest son, David is really, uh, anytime someone says any curse word around one of his children, he goes language. It's like, yeah, you're right. I need to watch my language. You know, they hear everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. [00:48:00] Yeah. Um, so what did anything else that kind of jumps into your head and graduation or wedding? My gosh, you've walked two daughters down the aisle.
Speaker 2: Th the particularly emotion times for me was when each one of them went to school for the first time they're out of the house, went to school just for, and then it was when they went to college. Um, and then, you know, weddings, those are the three big milestones when they first went to school when they went to college. [00:48:30] And, uh, when they got married. Yup.
Speaker 1: Well, how's the transition. I mean, you, you meet your wife, you you're married and you're together for a couple of years before you start having kids. And then you go 30 years of having at least one kid in the house and now empty nest, like, what's that transition, like back to not having a house full of rowdy country Hicks?
Speaker 2: Um, it was gradual cause you know, we had [00:49:00] four. Yeah. And then we had three, then we had two, then we had one and we had none. So it was sort of a gradual thing. It wasn't a, like you had, you, you had one child and all of a sudden you didn't have any children. Um, so it was, it was sort of a gradual thing. It, uh, but you know, they still come back and it's, we never have a completely empty house hardly ever. Um, that'll totally empty house.
Speaker 1: So then what do you, do you still feel like a dad?
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. [00:49:30] I think I'll forever be their dad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. How about, uh, to the, what do the grandkids call you? Papa. Papa. What's it like being a Papa? It's
Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What are you excited to teach those kids?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh. Everything I can, you know, sports, um, you know, morality just, uh, I think they, they, they learned that I learned [00:50:00] so much from my father just by watching and observing. And I think they learn a lot from that. Just watching and observing, being a good citizen, a good person, uh, someone who helps others gets joy out of helping others, that sort of stuff. And, and they pick it up. I mean, I th the, the thing that, the things that I learned from my dad, uh, are innumerable, but, uh, the biggest thing, he was a, he was a public figure. He was, he was chairman the board of supervisors in Rappahannock county was 29. [00:50:30] Wow. And very instrumental and Rappahannock counties, uh, zoning laws. And, um, why Rappahannock county is still rural and not a bunch of stoplights like you talk about and, and, and, and whatnot.
Speaker 2: And we like it like that, but I would go to some public. I went to a couple of public meetings with him and, you know, if you're in a public servant, if you're a, uh, uh, elected official, you catch a lot of grief. Oh yeah. And [00:51:00] I would just remember at meetings, people would, some people, not everybody, but some people would just literally attack him. Yeah. And wow. Yeah. And he, um, he would just always keep his cool and he would respond, never respond with anger or, uh, attack someone personally. Um, but he would just stick to basically the facts. And, um, that was, that was, that was profound. [00:51:30] I think, you know, not, not reacting, but responding rational.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That requires a certain I'm going to load it because I want to get to the word resilience, but requires a certain level of comfort with yourself, which I think is a product of being resilient. Yeah. Um, so what, um, how important do you think it is for you? How do you think you can teach resilience?
Speaker 2: It's [00:52:00] a process, you know, that everybody's going to fall every day, everybody's going to fall. It's just, you get back up. Um, it's just a process. I think you do it by, uh, example. Um, and then, you know, when you need to tell, you know, if you want someone you're trying to teach, you know, you talk to them about it in a rational manner. Um, but I think it's mainly people learn most of the stuff they learn by observation. [00:52:30] And I just think that being, being a good example, uh, they'll observe it a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Being the example. So what's, what's, what's an example that you're proud to like a particular characteristic or trait that you're proud to have to be the example for
Speaker 2: I'm an independent thinker. Yeah. I don't, I don't take 'em. I, I, someone said they don't like this person, you know, I, that doesn't, uh, affect my opinion of that person. I let my person let my personal [00:53:00] interaction with that person, uh, for my opinion. And it's just like science. I mean, everybody's talking, you know, nowadays everything's crazy. As far as science, they use, they use follow the science all the time, and they're really not following the science. And just being able to think independently and form your own opinion on analyzing a situation, uh, as opposed to just in what most people were saying. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So, and that's another thing that I observed from my father. He was, [00:53:30] he was an independent thinker and you gotta have, you gotta have, uh, self confidence in your own abilities and your own mindset and your own ability to analyze the situation. Because, you know, it's a heck of a lot easier to be wrong if everybody else is wrong with you. Right. But if everybody else is thinking one way and you're thinking someone else, and you're thinking, what happens if I'm wrong, if I'm wrong, I'm the only person wrong. And, you know, it takes someone with a lot of, [00:54:00] uh self-confidence and, and, uh, you know, um, self-respect to, to be willing, to take an opinion or take a position that they truly believe in that everybody else doesn't believe in.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's particularly poignant to thing to say, given the, the days, these days, um, I want to jump into some kind of rapid fire questions as we near almost an [00:54:30] hour. Um, the first one is, how do you think your kids would describe you
Speaker 2: Stern, but fair.
Speaker 1: There you go. I like that. Um, money's no object time, space, no object. What gift would you give to every father on the planet?
Speaker 2: I never even thought about that. That's what I like
Speaker 1: Healthy child. [00:55:00] Uh, when in your life do you feel the most love
Speaker 2: When I'm with family? Yeah.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what you're doing just together. Uh, what are three characteristics that a super dad has to have
Speaker 2: Patients, um, time, uh, patients' time. Oh gosh, you helped me out on this
Speaker 1: [00:55:30] Three. Limiting it to three is difficult, but
Speaker 2: Time and willingness to willingness to, you know, put your, put your child's needs above your own. Yeah. I think that's the selflessness. Yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was going to go enthusiasm. Uh, selflessness. I like better. All right. So, uh, the billboard question you've got to you're on 2 11, 29, 66, [00:56:00] going a hundred miles an hour, you got a billboard, you got to deliver a message, a piece of advice to every dad that goes by, that just has to crank his neck to check out what it says quickly. So you what's that little piece of advice that you would fit on that billboard be a good
Speaker 2: Example.
Speaker 1: Perfect. Is there a TV dad or fictional dad that you like,
Speaker 2: Who was the guy that had my three sons [inaudible] and McMurry or something [00:56:30] like that? The father had had? And my three sons that was probably a little four year time.
Speaker 1: I don't know. All right. And then this would be our last question. So thank you again for being here at a lot of fun, talking with you, and I'm excited to share this. I think a lot of people get a lot out of it. Okay. Presumably though, the pyramids will one day be forgotten. Um, this recording will last for a very, very long time for generations of Millers to come and perhaps five [00:57:00] or six generations from now, there there's a family sitting on the porch of the ginger hill, Angus farm and listening to this. What is something you'd like for everybody in the family to hear?
Speaker 2: Gosh, you put it that way. I don't know. I mean, that'd be really put me on the spot there with, uh, uh, gosh, uh, potentially my gray, gray, gray grandchildren, listening to rephrase that question.
Speaker 1: So [00:57:30] generations of Millers something from you to them on any, anything
Speaker 2: I have a purpose in life. Yeah. You have a, everybody needs a purpose. If you lose your purpose, your, you know, have a purpose in life. I like that. And the other thing is, is, you know, everybody wants to find happiness. Um, and the best way to be happy is do something good for somebody else, [00:58:00] you know? Um, that's the way I've found. I, I get a lot more happiness by giving than I do by, um, by receiving
Speaker 1: For sure. That seems like a wonderful way to advance humanity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. I mean, if everybody felt that way, it'd be a lot greater world. I mean, you know, I enjoy nice things and, and whatnot, but I, you know, I think everybody, if you do something good for somebody and you see what [00:58:30] it does for them, I think what you get out of it is, is equal or better than what, what you do when you give somebody, you know, then, then the person that gets it. I mean their response. Oh, so often this is awesome. Yeah. And that's, that's one of the good things about, about being a doctor is, you know, when I first was a doctor, when I first got out of medical school and residency, I took, I sorta took it for granted. And now that I've had these patients for, [00:59:00] you know, 20, 30 years, they really put you up on a pedestal and they, they trust you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do it. My doctor tells me he I've heard many a time
Speaker 2: And, uh, that's one of the things that's made this pandemic so difficult for me, because sometimes I say things that to my patients and give them opinions that aren't always what the mainstream [00:59:30] narrative is. Um, but I can't lie to them. I mean, they trust me. I can't say what somebody else wants me to say. I have to say what I truly believe in my, in my heart. So yeah. That's pretty
Speaker 1: The burden of being an independent thinker with personality.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. It is a burden. I mean, you could just put, you know, you just go along with everybody, go along and get along. Um, but you figured out that I'm not that kind of guy.
Speaker 1: Okay. So, uh, all the Miller's on [01:00:00] the front porch of ginger hill Angus farm, you come from good stock.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Thank you for the time.
Speaker 2: Thank you for asking me. I feel, uh, I feel honored to be on your podcast. I've seen, I saw you as a young, you know, a high school student. I've seen you grow and have the greatest respect from you and, and, uh, you coach my son, Henry and JV basketball, and he thinks [01:00:30] the sun rises and sets and Tyler, Ross,
Speaker 1: Uh, I never would have thought I adore Henry. I had two beautiful daughters. I had Dora as well. And David, I don't know very well, but I've always enjoyed our interactions. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So no, Henry Henry loves Tyler Ross. That's awesome. Talks about him today. I love it. And I appreciated that. The great job that you guys did with them because they weren't a very good team at all. And you were, you were a good coach and, uh, you know, I thought you did a great [01:01:00] job. I think it was you. And was it rentals?
Speaker 1: There was me think it was me and Reynolds. And
Speaker 2: Was there another person too? Wasn't there a third person?
Speaker 1: I'm going to feel whoever it is. I hope they don't listen to this and hear the recording of,
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. All right. Now you guys did a great job because, uh, they were young and, and, and, uh, not early return kids and, uh, uh, no Henry loved it. So I appreciate it. I had the ultimate respect for you. Thank you. And I know you're [01:01:30] gonna be a great dad. I know you probably already, still a great dad
Speaker 1: Talking to people like you to be better every day.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you. That
Speaker 1: Was fun. That is awesome.