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Learning to Dad with Tyler Ross 041 - Hunter Guerin


Speaker 1: You hear that recording in progress. It's on my brother, hunter, Garrett. Awesome to see you, man.

Speaker 2: [inaudible] glad to be here, man. First of all, I want to, I want to thank you for, um, everything you've done for Lama wood and me, you know, when I reached out to friends and family about doing research, you have been, um, like so helpful. Every time I email that group, you're always the first to respond [00:00:30] and, and you will spend hours just talking to me about this business, which is really helpful when you, uh, when you start something by yourself. So I really appreciate it. And, and, uh, this guy is the best, uh, kid book author. I know my son is obsessed with donkey. I want the donkey book and I'm the donkey book. So You've been great to me. So I'm honored to be here.

Speaker 1: No, no, I've, uh, I've, I've, uh, I'm excited to talk to you and I, I was afraid of before we hit record, [00:01:00] we could have just gone on and on. Um, but for the folks listening, uh, hunter and I are high school friends and, uh, we haven't gotten to spend as much time together, but, uh, I've always enjoyed being around you and anybody that's ever met your wife, Katie. I know adores her too. So a pump to pump to talk, man. So, and it's so much fun watching you build this business. I'm excited to get into it. Like tell us, tell me what's the latest is.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so, um, I [00:01:30] started Lama wood, um, in April of this year, so sort of mid, mid COVID and, um, at the end of fire season, really a kind of fire pit season at that point. Um, so Lama wood is a firewood delivery service. Uh, we have suppliers all throughout Virginia. Um, and so it's a network of highly vetted suppliers. And so customers come to us and can easily place an order, uh, in order for firewood delivery [00:02:00] online with a credit card or, um, apple pay. Um, and then we deliver to the customer through that network. And so we're really sort of spreading business around to a lot of small businesses around Virginia and Maryland and DC right now. Um, and of course, September, uh, now heading into October. So, uh, we've been very busy to say the least. And, um, we just have loved being in Richmond. Uh, [00:02:30] Richmonders apparently loved their firewood and fireplaces and fire pits. So, um, you know, we've been serving a lot of customers have been growing really fast and have some awesome suppliers. So it's, it's been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: I feel like last time we talked, you were just, maybe hadn't even launched Lama wood yet. And you started in Richmond and then kinda it's, it's grown up a little bit from there.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think we were talking in probably March, um, [00:03:00] March as I was March and April as I was really starting to get off the ground. Um, we originally were talking last year and I think the fall of last year when I was doing research, um, with a program here in Richmond called, um, um, it's out of startup Virginia and the program was called idea factory, and it was a, uh, um, it's sort of a baby or mini incubator and Lama would, was accepted in the first cohort. So we were kind of getting, doing customer research [00:03:30] and learning. Is this a opportunity? And do people really need this? And is there a problem? Um, but it sort of all started with the question of, um, why is it so hard to buy good firewood it's, uh, you can buy a fire pit online and it shows up at your door the next day.

Speaker 2: So why is it so hard to get good wood to burn in that fire pit? Now you can go, um, you can go to the local hardware store or the grocery store and get the seven to $10 bundles. Um, but if you have a lot of fires, obviously [00:04:00] that's not economical. So, um, yeah. And after talking to guys like you and, uh, um, suppliers, it seemed that there was a need for this. Um, and so I went, full-time on it in April and, you know, like I said, that was the end of fire-pit season. And then obviously we headed into the warmer months. Um, but that gave me time to build the network and build the tech, um, to prepare for the fall. Um, and it's actually a really good thing that I had that time because, [00:04:30] um, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of moving parts right now. And so

Speaker 1: You work out some tanks over the summer, you kind of had it almost like a beta launch in April. So, you know, you walk in all these small businesses and there's a $1 framed on the wall. Cause that's the first dollar that business ever had. Like tell, tell me about that moment for you.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So should I not count family?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's get your first, your first [00:05:00] nonfamilial the first non-family you gave would too.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'll tell you a

Speaker 1: First of many ponds.

Speaker 2: First of all, dad, if you're listening out there, dad was my first order I believe. But, um, since then he just asks me for, would give it to him. So he might not be my first dollar because I'm not sure I ever got that dollar. But, um, so the first real dollar was, [00:05:30] um, Daniel Ebert, um, out of Washington, DC. He is my, um, my wife's co-worker, so I have never met him. So to me he's a stranger at that point. Um, he was also the first network delivery that I did myself, sorry, first network delivery that was done on, on my behalf,

Speaker 1: Ringwood personally,

Speaker 2: I personally delivered as many loads [00:06:00] as I could in the Richmond area, um, to really learn the customer and know what it's like to be a supplier. Um, I've had cords and cords of wood delivered to my parking pad here. Um, and then I go out and do a delivery sometimes just with my 4runner carrying like a small load and sometimes renting a trailer and carrying a big load. Um, I know this podcast is about being a dad, so I, I will certainly tell you a story, um, related to that, but the, the, um, yeah, so the, the first, [00:06:30] the first actual customer, probably the first dollar Dan Ebert out of DC and then in here in Richmond, um, I, I delivered to some friends, so I said, let's not count them, but I had, uh, a non friend delivery and my, um, in-laws showed up.

Speaker 2: It was, uh, around Easter. So it's kind of chilly at night. Um, they sat down to have a beer and it was about seven or 8:00 PM. And I said, well, I'm going to go out and do a delivery. And so here I am at like 8:00 PM [00:07:00] stacking wood on this guy's wood rack. And I got this, like, I'm getting them now. I got this, these goosebumps because I'm looking at his outdoor fire pit. It was actually a beautiful outdoor fireplace. And I see he's just, soughted his yard and I'm, I'm delivering this beautiful dry wood that I know is an incredible product. And I know when he puts it in that fireplace, it's going to burn and I could see the couch around the fireplace. And I just [00:07:30] got all warm and fuzzy because I knew that when he got home, he was on vacation.

Speaker 2: He was with family for Easter. When he got home, he'd be able to sit by that fire with whoever, um, whomever and, and throw the log on and it would light and it would just be, you know, a great night. So I, that was, that was a moment of, you know, really feeling like I'm doing it, you know, it's um, so that, so Andy, if you're listening, um, [00:08:00] that might be the first dollar that really, you know, that I could really feel. So, uh, I have amazing customers. I love, you know, every one of them. Um, but that one was that one was special.

Speaker 1: That is awesome. And I love, I love that the fire pit itself gave you like an emotional feeling to see it. And this is one of those things where we talk about it offline, but I'm going to throw it out there. Now I'd love to see, uh, the Lama would Instagram page or anything with just like shots of every fire pit [00:08:30] that that gets delivered to. And I thought that, um, like that gives me goosebumps thinking about these people. So have you, are you splitting any of this with yourself?

Speaker 2: I have not to date. I don't think I have split a single log

Speaker 1: Over countless loads. You

Speaker 2: Know what, actually, I take that back one time I delivered, um, to a guy who had old and he, he was talking about how ugly his old fire pit, his old fire wood [00:09:00] was. And I had an ax in the car and I was like, let me just chop that up for you so that I can then stack it, you know, with his other stuff. Cause it was these big logs, you know, you get a lot, you see a lot of that stuff on, um, Facebook marketplace or Craigslist where, you know, the, the guys are delivering wood from their backyard and it's, you know, it's, it's fine, but it's, um, it's often not the beautiful sort of fire ready product that I think a lot of people expect nowadays. Um, and, uh, [00:09:30] so I chopped that and that was actually, uh, I enjoyed doing that too.

Speaker 2: They, they, there there's this book, um, Norwegian wood sexually behind me, um, written by a guy named Lars Scandinavian. And it's a 180 page book about firewood. So, uh, no, or niche is, uh, you know, you can go as niche as you want in this world. And, um, and, and it's, you know, he talks about [00:10:00] chopping firewood. He said, it's actually one of it's, it's meditative, it's therapeutic. You can have the worst day at work or with kids, or whatever's going wrong with, with, uh, your day. And then you can go out back and just chop firewood. And it's just, it all goes away. It's, it's this kind of, you have to be kind of, um, uh, psycho a little bit because you're, you're breaking apart a organic object with a brute, you know, 30 [00:10:30] pound mall, um, crushing a log. It's kind of, you kind of feel like a lunatic, but it's, it's, you know, it's the best, it's the best brain shower. I think out there,

Speaker 1: I, there are three things me and my dad are really good at one is two on two basketball and another is real estate deals. And the third is we can split the out of some wood. We'll take anybody had to had on some wood splitting, but also you're doing all of this. Yeah. And I have three chords, uh, [00:11:00] at my house right now and it's mostly like, it, it doesn't burn, it's half wet, like I'm not fully seasoned. So I might have to read that book and understanding of what what's going on. Maybe you'll write the second edition of it. Um, but what is it that you, I mean, you gave up a hell of a gig to, you know, deliver what at the last minute on 8:00 PM on a Saturday, like what, what were you doing before you cut loose and, and started mama with?

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm [00:11:30] out of college. I was a mechanical engineer for a defense contractor up in the DC area, um, for about nine years. And then I joined in 2017, uh, um, January of 2017. I joined a marketplace startup in the DC area that was focused on manufacturing. And so, um, I was a product manager, which is sort of, uh, somebody who comes up with the customer, needs the requirements, um, to [00:12:00] then work with the development team and designers to, to build the software products that can help customers. So like Uber, um, Uber eats, great example, product managers kind of help define what the app does and looks like. So I was doing that for a marketplace, um, uh, for the customer side, because I was an engineer. And so I sort of had an understanding of what the customer needs and in, um, when was it July [00:12:30] of 2020, right.

Speaker 2: About a year ago, a little over a year ago. Um, we moved to Richmond, Virginia. Um, we were in DC, we were in a tiny row house. Um, we were living in my wife and I, and our at the time, one about one year old, one and a half year old reliving in about 700 square feet of DC row house. [00:13:00] And COVID hits in March and we have a little river house down in the Northern neck. And then on Thursday we said, let's go down to the river and, um, and just spend the weekend. And so we packed our weekend bags. We took our son down the river and, um, we never came home. We S we lived there for three months and we found out we were pregnant with number two in April, which was April 1st is when I found out. And, uh, later that month, uh, is my wife's [00:13:30] birthday and our anniversary like back-to-back, so it's a really exciting time.

Speaker 2: And of course we're mid COVID. And I said to Katie, what do you wanna do for your birthday? She said, why don't we go to Richmond and look at houses? And I said, all right, let's do it. And so we drove to Richmond. Um, we got here and we called our friend. Who's a real estate agent down here to let us into a house. We saw a few that day. Um, we saw one the next day on MLS, which you know all about. And Katie and I were both in zoom calls all day. And I'm like, [00:14:00] funny enough, we, my wife and I have our own slack channel to communicate. That's great. So I'm slacking Katie. I'm like, this is the one, this is the one. And so we drove to Richmond later that day. I had a beer at Vail brewery, saw the house, put an offer in, they accepted the next day and we were to the races.

Speaker 2: So we moved down here and, and it was really a life move. You know, I obviously we didn't, we had great gigs in DC and, and it was just a feeling. And I was like, what [00:14:30] do, um, Brad Feld, um, a, uh, investor, I was listening to an interview with him and he talked about this, this term, top of phelia, which is love of place. And I think that's, you know, people were always, why'd you move to Richmond? What do you, what are y'all doing? And I was like, it's, it's, it's a feeling and a place that we want to raise our family. And it just, you know, we just felt this love of the spice. So we moved down here and, um, I started, um, talking to all [00:15:00] sorts of people around Richmond, because I wanted to be an hour enrichment and we're all working remote, um, for our jobs in DC.

Speaker 2: And I really wanted to join this community and I want, I didn't necessarily want a job. I just wanted to find a way to use whatever little skills that I had in my own unique way. I wanted to be able to use them to make this community, um, you know, to become a part of the community and to help. And, uh, I think you and I talked about this a lot, actually on Tommy's [00:15:30] bachelor party, what's up Tommy, um, and you are off doing your own thing and, and you were just like, it's, you know, talk to me anytime it's it's, you know, just like you would love it. Like, so I'm thinking, I'm thinking. And, and, um, I did the idea factory and, um, ideas like, but then I'm talking to all my friends, like you and, and suppliers, and I'm getting texts from people like a message on Facebook marketplace.

Speaker 2: Does anybody know a good firewood supplier? And [00:16:00] then somebody would send me a picture of wood. That's not burning. And then one of my friends in DC told me about a time where like the delivery truck just never showed up. And he was like, how do you get to your house? And my friend's like, just Google it. So it was all this synergy. And then I get this call from a, from a, um, a connection. And the guy says, I love this idea. Um, I think that this has legs, you know, I'm interested in investing, um, you know, let's talk [00:16:30] about it. And while we didn't do anything on that front, I went back to my wife and I said, we've, I'm getting this like guy that's, you know, wanting to help me. And I think I can do this. And my wife, um, actually we were on the beach and she started pushing me.

Speaker 2: People started looking, um, you know, if you don't do this now, like you'll never do it. We're only getting older. We're only, these kids are only going to get more demanding. Life only gets harder. [00:17:00] So try now. Um, and you know, obviously I'm extremely fortunate to have a wife that has that mentality. Um, and you know, if I, if it fails, get another job, whatever, we'll figure it out. Um, so that was kind of the moment. And, um, it was, it's always a dream of mine to be an entrepreneur. And, you know, if you're going to work for 40 years, you might as well love what you do. Uh, I've got 40 left or however many left. And [00:17:30] so figuring out now, what I love, you know, will make the rest of my life better. So, um, while it seemed a little crazy and it is, it's still, it's still, it seemed crazy and it's crazier than it seemed.

Speaker 2: Um, but, um, you know, I just saw it as, as a once in a opportunity and, and took it. Um, I have a good friend here, Casey. Um, who's also a dad of one, um, who runs a business. And I talked to [00:18:00] him about how, like, you only have so much time with your kid. What, you know, do you regret doing this? Like, is it that important for you to have this company and miss out on some of the memories that you can make with your kid? And he said, you know, um, fairly long conversation summarized into it's crazy. Yes. You spend a lot of time that you have to make some sacrifices, but it's the best decision I ever made. Um, and so that [00:18:30] really helped me to understand that this guy's great dad, his daughter is amazing. Um, and we're good friends, and I just kind of felt like, like you just like you, it's like you can have kids and, and start a company and, and, you know, sort of be a little crazy, um, and still make it.

Speaker 2: And, um, I've, I've done a lot of help along the way, um, with a lot of different people, which I don't know how deep we're going to get on this conversation, but [00:19:00] I will go into it. And, um, and you know, it's, it's hard having kids, just having kids in general. It's hard, even if you were, even if you didn't have a job, it's super hard. It's hard on part on dads, hard on moms. I can't even imagine what it's like being a mom. Um, but th the sort of advice that I got just recently was that it's every, every dad has the exact same issues that I have with Katie and our [00:19:30] kids. Um, you know, he suggested actually joining Reddit groups about, um, there's like Reddit groups about being the dad. And, you know, we were, we were going through it. There was like a tough, tough day that I won't get into a ton of specifics, but basically I was talking to him about it.

Speaker 2: And he said, you know, the exact same dynamic, exact same thing is going on in my house. And joining this group really helped because it makes you realize that every dad is going through sort of a similar thing at home. Obviously [00:20:00] the context is a little different, but, um, so knowing that, you know, knowing that everybody sort of has all dads sort of have these challenges, uh, but his advice was, and I loved it is that, um, it's really hard, but, you know, that's why communication is so important. And just talking it out. Like I was just talking to my wife this morning, that that mornings are really busy, um, in the firewood business, because that's when everybody's loading the trucks and planning their routes [00:20:30] and changing routes. And today there was a hydraulic leak. And so a bunch of deliveries had to be rescheduled. And I just said to my wife, Hey, I think mornings are going to be really tough for me for the next couple of weeks until I've kind of get these things figured out. And she said, great, like I'll take mornings. And so, um, I think your question was, what was I doing before? Um, so there you do.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's incredible. I mean, if you speak to exactly [00:21:00] what the point of this whole conversation is, is to share that together with other people who, you know, share with the people we share with, because we all share this same thing and the perspectives that you touch on, uh, are also different. And that's, I love that, um, Katie was instrumental in encouraging you and basically like giving yourself permission by her giving you permission is really a special thing, [00:21:30] a supportive person like that. And I remember that conversation with you as we, we kind of were hanging back and just you and me talking about it, and you were so pumped and enthused, and, uh, it's cool to have seen it, uh, you know, manifest into what it is now and coming along. Um, but like what, tell me like the, the feelings you felt when you put in your two weeks or whatever it was like, I'm definitely going to do this. Was it fear, excitement, anxiety, you know, you're worried about [00:22:00] money or time with your family? Like, what are the, what are the things that you thought were at risk and how'd that ultimately play out or it's still playing out? Of course.

Speaker 2: Yeah, man, all, all of those feelings you just said, obviously I was at my last job for about four and a half years. Um, it was a startup, so that's kinda long to be there. Um, but saying bye to my coworkers was really hard. Um, but talking to them about this, um, this plan, [00:22:30] you know, they were so supportive and it just like that, that sort of pat on the back, um, really helped, you know, a lot of them live all over the place, um, where, like, as soon as Lama would comes to wherever I am, you know, I'd love to love to buy wood from you. So that, that was tough. And, you know, I remember actually, because we're all remote now. Um, I've had two jobs before starting Mamo and my last job there was like a going away, um, lunch and, you know, everybody came together, but [00:23:00] I left the top in the middle of COVID.

Speaker 2: So my last day was like just another remote day. And it was kind of, um, bittersweet to then go into this thing that I was super excited about. But, um, obviously the last two weeks I was closing out loosens at the, at the job just to make sure that the next person had everything squared away. Um, but I was also driving, like just doing everything I could building the site, uh, building the tech, getting [00:23:30] the infrastructure set up, talking to people here in Richmond. Um, going back to that idea of factory. I reached out to the, the people that sort of ran that event, which was through startup Virginia startup VA for short, um, and a company called and just told them all, Hey, I just, um, left my job to go full-time on this. Like, we'd love to catch up. And, and the first thing I did actually was talked to, uh, probably talk to you all.

Speaker 2: It, all my friends, you know, actually a lot [00:24:00] of high school friends, Peter, Tommy, uh, college friends, Tanner sub guys, um, and just said like, Hey, I'm doing this. Um, so Peter for example, was in sales at, um, SAS. And I was like, I need, I don't know anything about sales, like please school me. And so I just actually realized how important friends and you were network is when you then sort of move away from, um, a group. You know, you have there's 500 people in my last company and 500 slacks, [00:24:30] you know, coming at me, um, zoom calls and all of a sudden those slacks and those zoom calls. And, uh, you just have a day and you have to know, you have to just be very confident about the, your priorities, cause nobody, else's not only giving them to you, but even like helping you decide that.

Speaker 2: But anyways, so I went out and started talking to all these people. I think I over committed to a couple of things because of like the adrenaline. Um, you know, it's just saying that actions sort of breeds courage [00:25:00] and, and, uh, and, uh, Kurt, whatever that courage and, and, and, um, joy and excitement, whereas inaction kind of breeds, fear and anxiety. And so I took that action approach and just, just did as much as I did as much as I could, um, maybe to, you know, to, to hide some of the deeper feelings had just like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. And so I talked to lawyers and I talked to accountants [00:25:30] and all of a sudden I had all these different, like contracts that I signed and it's like, whoa, I like, I just need to sell wood first.

Speaker 2: I need to sell wood. And then I need to figure out how to deliver it. Um, and so I kinda S kind of settled in a little bit. And, um, now we're off to the races. So tell me about the role of the incubator. Cause I you're the first person I've talked to, that's had experience with an incubator like that. Yeah. So I, um, applied to this incubator after, [00:26:00] you know, I first moved to Richmond and I was looking around at like, what was going on in Richmond. I got connected to the, uh, executive director of, at Virginia Richard Lynch and, um, super nice guy. I biked down there and he gave me a tour in COVID and this place is beautiful. It's sponsored by capital one. It's like six floors down in Shockoe and enrichment. And there they're all these just empty offices. It's all these different startups that I'd never heard of, like 2, 3, 4 people teams.

Speaker 2: And there's just some, [00:26:30] there's tons of them. There will one of them, uh, hop drive. They helped transport cars from one dealership to the next dealership. Um, it's like, I never would've thought of that, but of course that's like super awesome. There are a lot of car dealership, businesses like car lots, um, headquartered on in Richmond. So anyway, while the cool stuff going on in, in this place, and, and I said, you know, I, I want to do something. And he said, well, you know, we've got this thing coming up called idea factory, why don't you apply? And I said, oh, I've got all these items. [00:27:00] Um, let me, uh, let me apply. So I applied with multiple ideas and Lama would got accepted, but actually didn't realize that, like, I didn't realize that it was a Lama, would they got accepted. So on my first day, they're like, hello founders, tell us about your company.

Speaker 2: And I, I said, well, which one? Which one, which 1:00 AM I here for? And they were like, Lama would. And I'm like, okay. And then, you know, I'm talking to my wife and she's like, if, if you applied with all these different ideas and they pick that one, obviously that one is like the, um, that's the idea. [00:27:30] So, all right. So basically this was a pre sort of, um, there's, there's an incubator here called lighthouse labs. Um, there's one down in Norfolk called us 7, 5, 7, accelerate. Both of those give you about, um, 20 K of equity without, I'm sorry, of, of, um, grant funding without taking any equity in the business. And they sort of, they sort of want you to be a mentor going forward and, uh, as a, to provide help to all these new founders. [00:28:00] And so idea factory was basically a crash course in customer resort or search.

Speaker 2: And so, um, Luke from a company called builder here, sort of led this program to start with, you know, how do you, how do you ask the questions to the customers? How do you, how do you, um, validate whether this idea is, is, um, you know, worth pursuing or how do you identify the opportunities? You may think that you're going to be one thing. And then all of a sudden, you know, through this research, [00:28:30] you figure out that that's going to be something else. And so actually another sort of dad's story, my wife and I are, are on our baby moon to, um, uh, prepare for Margo, our second baby, um, who was doing December. And I'm, I'm emailing all of these people to take this survey. It's basically, do you ever buy firewood online? Do you ever buy firewood multiple times a year? Um, and then, then you follow that up with how difficult is it to buy what online, [00:29:00] and then you rank those.

Speaker 2: So this whole program was about six weeks. And so each time we're meeting at, um, like six to 9:00 PM once a week, I believe, and then you have homework and you come back and you do it again. Normally it would be in person, but obviously COVID, it was remote, but it was here in Richmond. And so very in some of the people, um, got together and sort of like went to the next step. Um, one of the founders, um, that I was with Philip, um, [00:29:30] has gone on to do those incubators, uh, lighthouse labs in 75 70, sorry. So it kind of pushed him towards that direction. Um, I, uh, those, those accelerators are awesome, but I also, I came from this background of that. There's a lot of like really kind of dirty behind the scenes, like not techie, um, ways of selling and fulfilling orders.

Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of manual intervention [00:30:00] and, and you, you know, I think my old found the old, the founder of my old company said something like you, you want to validate your business by getting people to, to buy your product. And so I really, I kind of focused on just immediately selling. And through that incubator, I kept saying like, when do we start selling? When do we start selling? And they're like, yeah, that's great. Like get out there. And I started reading all these books and Derek Sivers, who I love has this great book called anything you want. And [00:30:30] it's like 44 pieces of advice about starting a business. And the first one is if you want to start a school for, um, autistic children, as an example, um, across the country, start by tutoring somebody for 30 minutes, one day a week, put a fire in the coffee shop and just, just start helping one person cause you can't help a billion people until you help one.

Speaker 2: And so, you know, I kind of quickly created this [00:31:00] service and sold, you know, one thing to my dad, I think. And then Dan, and then, then it's, and it's other people and it's like, whoa, now I've got to find the suppliers and, and, and you know, it just started growing from there. Um, so, but we're on our baby moon and I'm emailing all my friends to take the survey and it just not getting a ton of responses. And my wife goes, have you texted them? And I'm like, no, I'm emailing. It's, it's the professional [00:31:30] thing to do. She's like text them hunter. And so I just started texting like everybody, you were on it. Um, I have all these different like group texts from DC from high school from college. And so I'm just sending the survey out and people just started going nuts.

Speaker 2: You know, I had like 70 people, like while I'm sipping my coffee at the, and at Willow Grove. And, um, and all of a sudden I had all this research and that's, that's a great example of, um, needing somebody to bounce your ideas off of as [00:32:00] including your wife, um, when you do this kind of stuff and just, and just sort of having that communication to then solve your silly problems, which is nobody, apparently nobody checks email anymore. And so now I've learned firewood, the firewood business is all about texts. I text, text, text my customers all the time. So, um, anyway, you, you live and learn, but

Speaker 1: That's yeah. Talk to me a little bit about the difference [00:32:30] of being an employee versus running the show. Like how have you, how have you changed in the last it's been six months or so

Speaker 2: Tyler great. You're, you're good at this

Speaker 1: Podcast. Um, and I like what you're doing. I think it's so cool. I admire you for taking the step to do.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, like I said, I have a lot of help. Um, and, uh, so the first thing I did was [00:33:00] I, I had thought about it forever and I finally said, I'm going to get an executive coach. And, um, especially if I'm not going to have employees yet, then I need somebody to talk to that. Isn't my wife, because I have learned talking about work with your wife all the time, um, is a recipe card for not fun. You know, as I say, vacation, Katie and I always have this wonderful time on vacation. And I was like, wait, let me, why, why is that? So great vacation is great, but it's because we don't [00:33:30] talk about work and it's like a ha um, so don't bring your work home or have some limit that's one lesson, one difference. Um, but anyways, so I got an executive coach and I started talking to him, um, about all these, you know, all these different things.

Speaker 2: And it turns out, I think this is, um, an adult program, but he said one time, because I was just, you know, naming a bunch of things. And he said, being an entrepreneur and like sometimes starting a business, the first thing you have [00:34:00] to do is figure your out. And that's, that's a great summary to your, your question about like what happened in the first six months. What's the difference between being an employee and entrepreneurs, if you haven't figured your out yet, and then you start a business, like you are, you're on a crash course to figuring your out. What's the

Speaker 1: Process look like for you? Like, what's the you had to figure out,

Speaker 2: Man? Um, I think obviously a very, very obvious one. Um, [00:34:30] and one that I care I care a lot about is financial security. So all of a sudden I have no salary and, you know, I think first of all, you have to figure out a, what, what is exactly your budget? What runway do you have? Um, how are you going to modify your previous lifestyle to, um, to fit into this sort of new life? And I, I think one thing is that when you, when you remove your salary, um, [00:35:00] you have to become really conscious about your spending. And there were, I can name all sorts of things that I used to think that I really wanted, or that I really loved. And all of a sudden I was just like, ah, that none of that matters. You know, I don't, I don't really care about that.

Speaker 2: And then another thing was, um, you know, going, let's say you're, maybe you, you don't have a salary anymore. So maybe vacations become more sporadic at least at first. And I was thinking to myself, well, [00:35:30] you could go on these vacations where you can, you can have nice things, but if, if underneath you're not happy with, you know, your, um, career, your life, whatever, then all the, all these nice things or whatever. Um, they don't even have to be nice, but things don't matter. So let's focus on relationships and people and, uh, minimizing, you know? And so that was, uh, a big part of, [00:36:00] of, um, you know, of course the first thing that happens, uh, financial, whatever, what are we going to do financially? And then the next thing is why, so, you know, why is I, I need to do X, but I'm not doing it or I'm, I'm doing Y and I, and I can do it really well.

Speaker 2: And so you start questioning why, why am I not doing X? And w why do I like Y what's, you know, what's the motivation, because [00:36:30] at the end of the day, you have all these different things that, um, you learned behaviors, or I say this often the stories that you tell yourself, um, kind of define your life. And if you've been telling yourself all along that your, a great engineer or, or people are telling you stories, you're a great, you're a great, this, you're a great that, and maybe you don't actually believe that you are, and you're, you're, um, sort of doing things to sort of [00:37:00] conform to that story that you're telling yourself or that other people are telling you. I think that's, uh, you know, uh, that kind of actually leads me into, um, you know, I was an engineer for nine years.

Speaker 2: I was a good engineer, but I don't think I was a great engineer. Um, then I became a product manager and I was a good product manager, but I don't think I was a great product manager. And, but I think that a lot of what I was doing was because I was, you know, wanting [00:37:30] to do what I thought was the best thing for me to do or what, you know, the stories that I'd been telling myself. Um, but I think I kind of got tired of pretending to be something that I, I wasn't, and I sort of changed. I asked a lot of questions and I sort of changed the story to what, what do I love, what am I potentially uniquely capable of doing? Or what, what makes me unique? Um, [00:38:00] you know, I think one example is Joe Rogan. Um, if you're listening, Hey, Joe.

Speaker 2: Uh, but nobody, nobody else in the world is Joe Rogan. So he took this kind of crazy in, in a, uh, to podcast to stand up comedian, um, path. And like, he's just, um, you know, has the most successful podcasts in the world. So how do you figure out who you, how, how are you uniquely and nobody else's Tyler, Austin, nobody else's hunter Garren. So, um, [00:38:30] how do you actually use that identity? Um, and then, you know, again, starting a business, you have to sort of put that out there. So, um, you know, you have a lot of skin in the game. Um, so the difference, I think, between being an employee and an entrepreneur is, um, there, it's almost like throwing fuel on the fire as an entrepreneurial. You can't sweep anything under the rug.

Speaker 1: Was that like a gradual, you know, that exploration you were taking [00:39:00] on yourself was that gradual, did you have this like, aha moment where you went, oh my gosh, like, I'm not doing, you know, I'm not fully satisfied doing this, or was it like chipping away at you?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I think it was gradual. Yeah. Um, and my, you know, I think a huge thing about either way, either way you're, if you are a passionate person and you are a hard worker and you have a high standard of, [00:39:30] of, um, work product, like you're going to work hard for an employer, or you're going to work hard for yourself. I think actually my executive coach said this and nothing wrong. In fact, I will go out on a limb and say a full-time job with a nine to five with a salary. And benefits is a wonderful thing. It is, uh, that's why it exists. Um, so nothing against that life or that style, but, um, the, [00:40:00] the, um, if you are working for somebody else, you are putting all of that effort into someone else's some other business's success. Yes. You share in the joy and the success, but it's, you're investing in somebody else's future.

Speaker 2: Um, and if you sort of go out on a limb, uh, and, and do something entrepreneurial you're, you're investing in yourself. So I'm of course talked, talked about a lot of, of these things with my coach. And, um, [00:40:30] you know, I think, uh, there were, there were times where it's like, all right, well, maybe I, maybe I can do this on the side and go get some kind of safety, um, and some great job here in Richmond or wherever, but then, you know, have this as a passion project. And it's, you know, and then we talked about long-term investments. There were, there were other things that I could have done for, to, to make, uh, you know, to give myself safety nets. And I chose not to do them because I considered them long-term investments. [00:41:00] And he said, so you don't consider Lama with a long-term investment.

Speaker 2: I was like, yes, I do. And he's like, okay. So, um, but like figuring out that I wanted to do it, I wanted to do it forever. Um, and I think one thing is like, when you set, when you have a, an expectation on yourself and you don't actually do it, you're basically letting yourself down every day, which, you know, doesn't feel good. So, um, I think with encouragement and, you know, a great wife and great kids who are too young [00:41:30] to give me encouragement, except my son always says, dad, that's too much fire. That's too much. Um, when we pick up firewood together, um, that's too much fire depth. Um, but I wanted to, you know, I wanted to set a great example for the kids. Um, there's a lot of balance between, is this going, is this company going to consume so much time that I then don't have that time for the kids?

Speaker 2: But I always said that that's, that's just a prioritization [00:42:00] dance. You know, you, uh, as Steve Spurrier said, if you choose not to work out, it's not because you don't have time. It's because you didn't prioritize it. So you have to be very clear with your priorities and block off those times. But if you're, if you aren't truly happy or you don't truly feel like you are pursuing your, your truth, then I think those things carry out in your father, the way you father and your happiness. And so if I want to be like completely [00:42:30] there and completely, um, honest with myself, um, you know, I think this, this felt more real and in turn has resulted in, in my happiness level, you know, going through the roof, um, and, and nothing against any former job, but it just feels, it feels true. And it feels right.

Speaker 2: It's the most rewarding work I've done and for better, for worse [00:43:00] and spending tons of time with my kids. In fact, my, my wife, uh, my I'm sorry, my daughter is, has not had childcare because of COVID. And, uh, she has been here with us. She's nine months old going on 10 months old. And we just got a nanny, a part-time nanny a couple of weeks ago. So every day I'm holding her or we're going on a walk, my son is going out with us to pick up firewood. In fact, one time you asked [00:43:30] about when I was delivering wood, um, I had the biggest sales day ever for Lama would, and I was going to do the delivery because I, I was going to use a new supplier and I was taking wood to my, like, he was, he's one of my best customers.

Speaker 2: So I got to do this in order to vet the supplier. I want to meet them and see the wood and do the delivery myself. And so my wife's out of town and I come home that morning. I've rented the trailer. I'm going out to the supplier. It's about an hour and 20 [00:44:00] minute drive. Um, and, uh, I sit down to kind of plan my day and I, my daughter is asleep. Um, I'm going to take her to my parents for the night and my son's at daycare. Um, and I get this call at nine 30. Hey, your son just threw up. Um, you have to come pick him up and he has to stay out of school for 48 hours. So here I am like with my wife's out of town, my son's got to throw up bug. I, you know, try [00:44:30] for some babysitters, you know, then I'm like, no babysitters kind of want to hang out with this kid.

Speaker 2: Like there was up all day. So I'm like, all right, buddy, you're coming with daddy, put him in the backseat. I give him a couple of trash bags. And I say, if you're going to throw up, you know, put your head in this, in this trash bag and don't throw up. And so he gets in the car with me and we drive a total of it's about four hours that day. I had all these deliveries that I was going to do that night. And I, you know, he's literally throwing up in this bag. Um, [00:45:00] you know, my daughter is nine months old. She's sitting in her car seat, like she's, you know, babies are like, by the end of the trip, June is basically naked. My son's naked, throwing up in bags. My daughter's naked and I get home and, and, and I, I just feel broken.

Speaker 2: And he, I look up, I'm feeding my daughter and he, my son comes around the corner with a gallon of apple juice, but the top wasn't on and he flips it. I said, put that down, put that down, please. And he flips [00:45:30] it upside down and, and just drops a gallon of apple juice all over our living room floor and, uh, you know, broken. I go to sleep and I wake up and I put him in the car and we go to those deliveries, 8:00 AM to 1:00 PM. They're in the back of that car, just watching like Rio on iPhones. Um, I called two local high school kids. Hey, y'all got to come help. Like, and they're like, when can we, when should we be there? I'm like, uh, right, like right now. [00:46:00] And they come over three guys together, it took like four more hours to finish their deliveries.

Speaker 2: I get home. And it's one o'clock. I sit down with my son at the breakfast table to give him lunch and he looks at me and he goes, daddy, I'm having a great day. And I'm just like, I'll lose it. I'm just, I, first of all, kids are the most resilient thing in the world. And second is, I was like, I'll never do that. I'll never, I'll never deliver wood again [00:46:30] at the expense of, you know, like at that expense. And I think there's, there was a lot to learn in that moment there, similar things like COVID has caused us, but as being a dad with a company, you have to think, what, what are these things that I'm doing that could just, I could just completely stopped doing, or I could give it to somebody else who's better at it than I am delegating and just identifying [00:47:00] things. And so all of a sudden, just like in one moment I quit doing deliveries and now I have amazing suppliers doing 10 times better job than I ever could. Um, and instead of being out on the road, I get to be here with the kids. So, um, amazing. Sometimes the best thing you can do is get out of the way. Let me pause for a minute. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Sorry about that to think. Oh,

Speaker 1: So [00:47:30] we're back. I guess I got my question for you. Um, Gary Keller wrote a book called the one thing and, um, I didn't particularly care for the book, but there was a concept in there that really kind of resonated with me that you were kind of flirting with, which is the counterbalance, um, employee, typical hours, typical day, you get into a routine you go in and so that you kind of have your balance established a groove of raw somewhere in between, goes back and forth. [00:48:00] But now as the entrepreneur, as the, the guy, um, can you speak to me about how your balance in life kind of shifted and what you've done to kind of go with the flow of it?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, I've also read that book. Um, I actually enjoyed it. Um, yeah,

Speaker 1: Maybe, maybe it's cause he's a real estate guy and I I'm been out of shape about his business.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Gary killer, the one thing. So, um, [00:48:30] for some context there, uh, that book is about how do you figure out the single most important thing that you can do every day and just get up in the morning and from 8:00 AM, till 12:00 PM, just do it. And then the rest of the day, you can do whatever

Speaker 1: I have a home Lillian thing. So the one thing to say there is no one thing,

Speaker 2: You know, so, so I, I was the same way and I dug into it a little bit. Um, and so, but actually to your limited, your question first, um, so the balance you're talking about is that there's, there's this [00:49:00] neutral line that goes up, um, from like an X axis. And on one side you have family on one side, you have career and life is, is really a, like a sign curve of going back and forth. So you start going heavy towards your career and then your family life suffers. Then you start going heavy teary towards your family life and then your career suffers. And one thing he says is that, uh, you're, it's never going to be like completely even, um, like it's never going to be a pretty mirror image, kind of [00:49:30] back and forth. It's always going to be heavily skewed towards one for like an extended period of time and then heavily skewed towards the other, for an extended period of time.

Speaker 2: But the thing he says there is that you can lose a job and you'll be fine, but if you lose your family, you can never get that back. And that actually really resonated with me. Um, and I think first of all, you know, I just had a conversation. Uh, I mentioned [00:50:00] earlier that mornings are, are really busy. Um, you know, from 6:00 AM until this call, um, there was a lot of back and forth with all my suppliers who are scheduling their deliveries for the day and then you need to, and there there's, you know, updating anyway, it's a very busy time. And so my wife's, um, on work travel right now when we were talking this morning and, and I, and she said, how's everything going? And I said, I, you know, mornings are going to be really busy for me. And she said, all right, well, I'll do more.

Speaker 2: And so, [00:50:30] you know, not, not to don't ever keep score, but, um, I can do evenings. I'll do, you know, I can hang out. I can be on kind of on-call and doing bath time and bedtime and pick up from daycare. And, you know, I take my son to school every day. Um, my wife would do it in and, you know, for any time, but just I'd take him to school. And I pick him up almost every day, you know, obviously there's some times, so that's one thing. Um, I, uh, you know, we [00:51:00] have that little river house and I'll plan, um, a day where I take my son down, um, or daughter and just have a day and a night and camp in the yard and have fires, of course, smores, you know, go on the boat, whatever, just like dedicate really focused chunks of time.

Speaker 2: But I think also the, you know, going back to the career coaching, and then of course this is a podcast about dads. And so, um, I'm [00:51:30] very, um, I'm very open that Katie and I go to marriage coaching. Um, and, and that's that started in this, um, you know, time of me starting this company, but we, we have, there's so much going on. There's we, we moved to a new city, I left my job and started a business. Katie, my wife has three companies, three jobs. She is full-time employee. She has a, um, a job trying to create a statewide trail coalition of bike trails [00:52:00] around Virginia called movement itself. Um, and she has an antique booth here in Richmond. So, um, a lot, a lot going on. And so we saw this opportunity to be proactive around, you know, we were looking for like, of course we were like, we have, we have a great marriage.

Speaker 2: Um, we're happy, but you know, nobody's perfect, but the best, the best people in the world have coaches, Michael Jordan has a coach. Um, so cell marriage counseling, [00:52:30] why should I go? So I will say, first of all, it's marriage coaching, coaching, coaching, you know, this is kind of what he said is coaching is like, let's build a playbook coaching reference and, you know, you're, you're very familiar with, I think your coach yourself. Um, so why not have somebody like Tyler, Ross, that's just there in the room for you to talk about things that [00:53:00] are, that you're struggling with or that you're happy that you're doing great with, you know, sometimes it's like a totally positive conversation and it's also not, you know, I think one of the fears that a lot of guys have is that, you know, I've, I've heard multiple people say, um, not to name any names, but like, oh, y'all go to marriage coaching.

Speaker 2: My husband would never do that. Like, uh, first of all, have you asked, have you asked him second of all, if he, if he ever did it, he would immediately [00:53:30] want to do it more and more and more because what person doesn't want to have this like neutral party, just moderate a conversation, because we all know what happens when you get into a, an argument is things escalate, you get defensive. Um, we did this great exercise around, um, your fears and, um, you take it, you take a conversation or a disagreement, and you think about in that, in that instance, what, what were you [00:54:00] afraid of? Like, what are your fears? Um, some examples you're, you're afraid that you're being judged. Um, and then what's your response. And so your response might be to, um, immediately apologize and then say, I love you. Or your response might be to just like, um, get angry or whatever it is.

Speaker 2: And, and these words, so the, so these responses were named, so there's a, there's like a flight response. There is a, [00:54:30] um, there is a minimalization response. There is a, um, aggressive response, whatever you just have these words. And then you realize that your sort of playbook when you get into a disagreement is to do, is to do these three things. And to me, that was like kind of one of the most valuable things we've done in coaching is I was able to define my response to basically any disagreement. And you, you name [00:55:00] these things and you realize that they're just, they're just things like you and I respond completely differently to stress, to anxiety, to disagreement your way of responding is not wrong or better than mine. Um, and just naming it helps you realize, like, again, in the stories you tell yourself, um, kind of come out, it's like, how can I change that story?

Speaker 2: Or, or don't, maybe don't even change it. Cause maybe you have a great response to an argument. [00:55:30] But now I know that when it happens in the moment I can go, oops, I am not right now, I'm doing this. And now I'm doing that. And pretty soon I'm going to be feeling this, you know? And so, um, going through that together with my wife, I was able to learn her response. And so now as we, uh, if we ever get into an argument in the future, I can say, well, first of all, why, what is her fear right now? Like what fear am I triggering? [00:56:00] And now obviously it's not cut and dry. So actually apparently a really great thing to say is what are you afraid of? Like what in this car, like in this thing, what, you know, what are you most worried about?

Speaker 2: Another thing I heard this is great is like, what are you seeing that I'm not seeing? Like, what's the, uh what am I missing? Because, you know, I love, and you are a smart person and we are married for reason. So I respect all these things. So obviously I'm missing [00:56:30] something. Can you help me understand what I'm missing? Um, and that's not like a judgemental question. Um, I learned that from a conversation with this woman in, um, um, from Harvard around, um, uh, disagreement, what was her negotiation, um, tactics, you know, obviously as an entrepreneur, a lot of, a lot of, uh, your day is negotiations, contracts and joint ventures. And I think that's actually one of going back to your difference in entrepreneur versus employees. [00:57:00] One of the really neat things is that, um, as a business owner, a lot of the people you work with every, like almost every relationship, it's obvious that there's this, uh, there's this like mutual benefit to each other.

Speaker 2: And so your, your business dealings together are very much like how can I help you? And so that you helped me. Um, and now this happens at work, but a lot of times, you know, people in different teams have different motives and, and it can be sometimes hard to see that like [00:57:30] your work and their work is mutually beneficial. So anyway, I think that's a little easier when you're, um, when you literally like, have to make a dollar in order to, to pay the bills, as opposed to like, ensuring that you have a steady income, but marriage coaching can long long-winded answer. I know it's great.

Speaker 2: But marriage coaching is like, at the end of it, often you're getting like, this y'all are doing great. Keep up the good work. Like [00:58:00] this is a process, everybody, um, you know, everybody can benefit from trying to talk about, but what I was saying earlier is that one of the best things about marriage coaching is you literally get to listen as like a fly on the wall to your wife, talk about the things that are really bothering her. And a lot of times, as we know dads out there that it's not always, um, it's not always our fault. It's not always about us. It could be about something completely unrelated [00:58:30] that we just don't realize because we haven't gone there with them. And you can realize that like some, some thing that happened in, in their Workday or with the kids really got really triggered one of those fears.

Speaker 2: And, and then, you know, that, that manifested into some, some other behavior that, so you can, you just sorta, I said to my coach actually, [00:59:00] cause when I, when I'm talking to him, you know, he's very, oh man, I understand how hard that must be. And, and you are like, let's just acknowledge that this is really tough and all these great words, um, that just don't that sort of communication. Isn't natural to me. Um, and I wish that it was. And so I, I, if, if I could be like a fly on the wall or if I could just like have this out of body experience and, and watch us [00:59:30] have this conversation and realize that, you know, not everything, like one of my fears is being judged. Um, man, really going deep here with you. Um, and so, but a lot in a lot of times, what is a disagreement to me, feels like I'm being judged and reality is like not being judged it's that whatever is going on is actually a really difficult thing. And there's some fear that's triggered in Katie and she just wants to talk about it. And how can I just [01:00:00] like, pretend like I'm listening to some other couple talk about their fears and then I would easily go like, oh, hunter, like obvious that Katie is really worried about, you know, X and like it's obvious that a hunter is really worried about why. And like, if you all just do this, you know, no big deal problem

Speaker 1: Solved. What's the difference then?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean, I think you go is, you know, another great book out there, Ryan holiday ego is the enemy. Um, he says that ego is basically the result, the cause of all of your problems. [01:00:30] Um, I have this picture actually. I don't know if you can see that on my wall. Um, now I have to show you, this is framed in our house.

Speaker 1: We love the mosaic mural. Your ego is not your amigo. Hi for those listening, a hunter has on his wall, a framed, a sign that says, uh, your ego is not your amigo

Speaker 2: Big mural in DC. That obviously I love. Um, [01:01:00] so yeah, I think, but I think that that was going back to it is like being judged triggers. Um, and you know, you, my gosh, we can always edit this out. So

Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me what you like. I'm really interested in this because I'm going to investigate it myself and talk to Sarah about it, because I would think that even in a, even if it's marriage coaching, it [01:01:30] really is making you more aware of your, I mean, in addition to your partner makes you more aware of yourself, which makes you a better everything, a better human being. But as far as allowing your coach and your spouse to infiltrate these walls that you've built up, I don't know if this is the right way to say it, but like, what are the things that what's the work you had [01:02:00] to do to break down the walls? Um, yeah. What do you have to do?

Speaker 2: Uh, so great question fast again. You should have a podcast and if you ever, if Sarah wants somebody to talk to give me a call, um, I, I, yeah, I I'm big, big fan. Um, okay. So one of the things they say, I think they also say this in coaching. Um, I mean in counseling is [01:02:30] that they don't do anything for you. They will never do anything for you. You have to do everything. Like they're not going to change you. You have to change yourself. If again, if you want, like, there are a lot of things you shouldn't change about yourself. And as, as our marriage coach just said, sometimes your biggest strengths are also your biggest weaknesses. So I will say globally, this experience has helped me realize that my walls are just walls. Just like you have walls, whatever your walls are. [01:03:00] Some of them, I was talking to my coach and I was like, uh, my walls are probably different years. He's like, Nope, yours are yours. And mine are exact same.

Speaker 2: I felt good to hear. But, um, just knowing that like somebody else had my similar walls, um, but a defining them, I name your walls. Like, it sounds silly. I always heard that the same name, your fierce. I'm like, oh, I'm afraid of spiders. I'm not actually afraid of spiders, but why would I name like that's silly. So name your fear, [01:03:30] your fear of being judged. Like, I didn't even know that it was a fear I've never heard. There's no such thing as fear of being Google it. What is it? How'd that get teased out of you to make that acknowledgement in that exercise? I don't know, Google, um, man, I wish I knew what it was. Um, just like fear, you know, I've done this thing called fear setting. Um, that is a little, actually a similar it's, but let's go back to your actual question.

Speaker 2: Duke's [01:04:00] Google, like marriage argument, fear, um, I don't know, quiz or something. And so we were thinking about a specific thing and the question is, um, what was the first of all define the disagreement. Um, the next question was like, how did that disagreement make you feel? And there was these things. It was like judged, um, happy, [01:04:30] sad, disappointed, um, minimize, you know, all these different words. And each one had a description of like what that might mean, and that was really helpful for me. Um, and so you do that and then the next one was, so then how did you respond? And then it's, again, it was like all these different things. And so it was that exercise that, that tease that out. And, um, now that was just, that was figuring out like some of these walls, like, what [01:05:00] are these, what are these walls that happen?

Speaker 2: So I'll, I'll say mine. Um, again, because I believe that like, mine are mine and yours are yours and, and don't judge me a peer of mine. How many people listen to this? I'm just me, but, uh, you know, yours, yours aren't any worse or any better than mine. So my response was minimize the person's point of view [01:05:30] or argument. I can do that emotionally disconnect. So fine. If you're going to argue with me, then obviously we're not friends anymore. And then third is fix it mode and fix it. Mode could be, I actually realized that I was wrong and I try to fix it, or I still think I'm right. And I try to go beyond like, fix it beyond the level that it needed to be fixed on those to say, like, see, like I'll, I'll do that. Um, [01:06:00] and uh, one of my friends not to be named was saying, one time he slept in, when his daughter was crying and his wife was like, come on, like, aren't you gonna aren't you gonna go get her?

Speaker 2: Like you, you just got home from like a weekend with the guys. And so then he's like, I will get her every morning for the rest of the week, like 5:00 AM, I'll just be waiting. And so he did every day and it's like, that's, that's the fix it sort of spite response. But, um, and so, so [01:06:30] then I think another like wall breaker was a recent conversation of, um, I can't remember how, how this one came up, but something that we were discussing and it really, uh, I think, you know, communication is huge. Um, regardless of your situation, when you have kids, you know, I think Katie said something like our life is like, we're like logistics, ninjas. It's like, everything we do is logistics, you know, [01:07:00] would be a title of a book and logistics ninja. Um, and, uh, so communication is key, but, but then like really being open with your spouse.

Speaker 2: Um, I think w I think it came up like that. I feel feelings that are, um, sometimes like deeper than I would be willing to share or that like the actual cause of some of my [01:07:30] issues are for our deeper feelings than like I'm expressing or even communicating. I think one of the reasons for this is, again, I thought this was an amazing comparison is that this author was talking about her co-author and she is very like conflict ready. And her co-author best friend of 35 years is conflict averse. So whenever they get in arguments, he goes, okay, I guess we're not friends anymore. And then she calls him the next day to like review chapter five. [01:08:00] And he's like, why are you calling me? We're not friends anymore. Didn't you, weren't you there for that disagreement yesterday? And she's like friends disagree. That's what they do.

Speaker 2: Like, come on, come over. And we got to edit this chapter. And I think in a lot of ways, I'm the guy that's like, wait, we had a disagreement yesterday. And Katie is like that. Yeah. Like people have disagreements all the time. Um, now let's go, let's, let's get back to it. Um, and so I guess go and then getting into some of the other stuff about like judgment, [01:08:30] fear of being judged, what, like my wife's like, I'm your wife. I'll never, I would never judge you. Like, if, if anybody is not going to judge you with me, you know? Um, and so that like basically was given the opportunity to be like, be, be like totally open and honest here, because like she's saying that like she wants, she's asking you to be, and it's like, she actually it's like you, you are, you know, not [01:09:00] sort of giving me feedback in a way that like, I even want, like, you're you, you just, um, you know, there's something else there, sometimes that, and I want you to be able to do that because like, I think I heard this quote too, that, um, conversations are the relationship like, and I was like, wow, that's really deep.

Speaker 2: Like seriously, the conversations that you have with your partner, that's your relationship. Like everything else. You're just, you're just [01:09:30] two people near each other. Right. So, um, and of course, going back to marriage coaching, and if you're going to be married to Sarah, or if I'm going to be married to Katie for the next 80 years, hopefully we're living that long. Like why not try to make that as good as possible? And so whatever you need to do do it. And you know, I love that I'm gonna like try it. If it doesn't work, quit, whatever worst case you spend an hour learning more about your spouse. [01:10:00] Um, you know, they're not, you're not going to get berated by like, you know, you're not going to be told that you're the problem. Um, because you're in a relationship as we know to two to tango.

Speaker 2: So, um, don't fear, you know, either if y'all, I would say don't fear, like, um, having a negative experience, um, what other quote and I'll, I'll stop with this is that you're, everybody has issues. Nobody's perfect. You can either address your issues [01:10:30] in the light of day, AKA talking to a coach or let them like seep out of your ears in the darkness of the night. And, um, that sounds really deep. And I think it's, I think it's very true. You can address disagreements and it's not just that it's like, I think the first time we had like, literally the first conversation we had with our coach, Katie perfused, her love of me the whole time crying at how amazing I was [01:11:00] and we left. And I was like, that was the best thing. So conversation talking, like,

Speaker 1: How do you find time to talk when you're doing the morning, she's doing the evening, you're delivering wood throughout the day or troubleshooting or whatever she's doing her three jobs. Like, do you find it challenging to, you know, flesh out [01:11:30] those conversations when you need to, and you like put a pen in it and come back to it later? Like, how do you manage that?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, so what I said is let's schedule some time on the calendar and then have like, man, I would, I would dread that. And she, and she's like, that will never work, but we do have, and I, this is another thing it's we have meetings, Katie and I have meetings on our calendar. Um, don't we don't always do them, but [01:12:00] you know, the saying like, if it does, it's not on your calendar, it doesn't exist. And we can always, you can always not go or reschedule, but financially, and again, we don't do them as regularly as we should, but we have a budget meeting, um, depending on right now, obviously like entrepreneur kind of, so it's more frequent than it probably will be in the future. But budget meeting, we have a, uh, um, a weekly standup to basically talk about Lama wooden and her businesses, because otherwise you're just going to talk about him [01:12:30] at all hours.

Speaker 2: So rather than like, say all the things that you're doing or that you're going to be doing, or that you need help with, you know, throughout the day, just book off some time and have that focused on that. Um, and then last is, um, again, that Bradfield guy who said, um, tope, Ophelia, he has this retrospective with his wife once a month, it's on his calendar. It's like four hours, 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM. The first of every month to talk about [01:13:00] what's coming up that month and how last month went, um, he traveled a ton and, you know, they were losing the opportunity of talking. And so they, they scheduled this four hour chunk, um, to like let it all out there. And at the end of it, they hugged and they promised that it was always like, they always left that conversation and like left everything in the conversation and they always hugged at the end to then go on.

Speaker 2: Uh, and like, and I, we actually really liked that idea and scheduled it had a, um, [01:13:30] we, we haven't done an official one yet, but, so to answer your question, um, you know, of course you have kids, you realize that like when you talk around the kids, they just get louder. So if like I'm on the phone with Katie talking like June, our son will just get louder and louder and louder. Um, and so obviously it's difficult to talk when kids around, um, obviously during the Workday we're working. Um, but we do go to lunch a good bit. Um, especially working from home. We have a great restaurant down the street [01:14:00] that we can walk to, but the real time that a lot of these conversations happen are in coaching. So that's an hour, I think it's actually 50. Now, what is it like 70 minutes or something during that monthly, weekly, biweekly, biweekly, biweekly is strange word.

Speaker 2: What does bi-weekly actually mean? Um, every two weeks or month by month by monthly that's what is by month? You mean every two months or twice a month? We'll never [01:14:30] go. We go, we go every two weeks. Sometimes it's in person, sometimes it's via via zoom, but, um, so that time, and then obviously after that time, we talked like on the way home. Um, one time we had a really good conversation and we, then we went to lunch and kind of talked a little bit more about it, but it was actually a really good conversation. So we sort of just celebrated that, um, experience at, uh, over sandwiches out, sitting outside. That was great, but [01:15:00] the real, the real time that the conversations happen is often at dinner and often while we're on date nights. So I've had to sort of apologize to tables next to us sometimes.

Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry about that. You know, 80 has no problem getting in there no matter where we are. I don't care. I don't care about other people. Emotions really come out because you're sitting where I've always been a part of my family. [01:15:30] I think you've, you've been there. We love to cook. We love to eat together. Uh, growing up, I ate breakfast every morning. It was one reason why I was tardy to school every day. I'm sorry, first, first period. Um, um, funny story. Cause we were in high school together. I, I did literally, I got, I got my senior privileges denied because I was late every morning because I breakfast and because I lived an hour from school and you know, I got my senior privileges denied. So then I got this great idea to bring a grill and tailgate party, [01:16:00] um, not to be named named, but that request was declined, but I never, I never got to tailgate in the parking lot, but, um, anyway, um, at the dinner table, um, so it's, that's like the one of the few times of the day, if you, if you share a dinner with your family or your wife, a lot of times we eat with the kids too and then put them to bed and then kind of sit back at the table for a little bit, maybe over ice cream or something, [01:16:30] but, um, you're really like one-on-one with your wife or spouse or whatever, um, partner and you get that kind of first time.

Speaker 2: And those in these busy schedules to really like communicate and, um, sometimes it, and sometimes it goes, it goes deeper and you know, those moments where you're on date nights, I going back to my, like my, the stories that I tell, you know, I want it to be this like delightful experience. And, you know, let's only [01:17:00] focus on the positive. Um, I love going out. It's like one of my favorite things to do. And w when those conversations actually get like serious or down to like, really like, let's talk about, you know, the challenges parenting or whatever. I'm like, wait, wait a second. I thought we were gonna have this beautiful evening. And, um, reality is those are, those are great times to have those conversations. So,

Speaker 1: And [01:17:30] so how about, what about, uh,

Speaker 2: It's going to be edited, right? No,

Speaker 1: No, we're, we're, we're going with it, man. So what about technology like phones? So they're just constantly driving us to pay more and more attention all day long. Uh, do you find that the phones get in the way of your communication with you and Katie? Are you and the kids?

Speaker 2: Um, yeah. Well, okay. So agree. Phones are, um, phones are bad. I [01:18:00] think, I don't know what kind of science is going to come out, showing what this is doing to our brains. Um, you know, I was thinking about cigarettes the other day and how like just 10 years ago, cigarettes were crazy, like crazy the craze, I'm sorry. Um, now all of a sudden, like I hardly ever see anybody smoking cigarettes, um, just just two years ago, marijuana was the worst thing in the world. [01:18:30] And now all of a sudden it's legal in Virginia and many other states one year ago, magic mushrooms and LSD and psychedelics were crazy. And now all of a sudden there, John Hopkins, you know, major research facility on suicide Ben's effect on PTSD and, and resistant, uh, treatment resistant, depressed depression. Um, so like what is going to be, what's going to be crazy next year that [01:19:00] we think is totally normal day.

Speaker 2: I, I think that what phones do to us is probably up there. And I also think the way we treat animals, um, but that's a different conversation. Um, so Katie and I actually are very, um, uh, conscious of phones where besides, besides, uh, work, neither of us are on Instagram or really any social media outside of LinkedIn. Um, we kind of joke about screen time every once in a while, like [01:19:30] we had, we brag about who has the least screen time. And often our screen time is Google maps or, um, sadly like Disney plus and Rio on repeat.

Speaker 2: Um, but you know, we make a conscious effort to sleep without like neither of us typically have our phones in our room. Um, we, you know, when we dine out, uh, you know, often I'll look around and see people like sitting at the table, going back, definitely weird wherever they're like, [01:20:00] go in deep, deeper than I'm I sometimes want to. And the people next to us are both like looking at their phone. Maybe that's because there might not stare at us, but, you know, and then Haiti might get up to go to the bathroom and I'll, I'll purposely try to just like, sort of look out the window or like watch the cooks or watch the people make the cocktails, or if I'm at the bar, talk to the bartender or whatever, um, sort of try not to bring that out now. Um, it's difficult to, to manage, um, [01:20:30] when like you're getting pains from, you're having to like, you know, be the business owner, if you will.

Speaker 2: And, you know, that's taking more and more demand on that, but, um, that's one reason I'm working to delegate as much of a much of that as much like, um, kind of email work that I need to do, um, to other people so that I can focus on family and friends. So like, um, [01:21:00] having virtual assistants and whatnot, that check email and respond to customer requests, um, is, uh, something that I haven't done in the past, because a lot of times it's like email when you worked for entrepreneur or when you work for a company or it's confidential. Um, but when you, when you are just doing something yourself, you know, it's easier. So, uh, I'm trying to give away as much of that, like pings. And actually if you go, if you follow my newsletter, um, my, my post yesterday, [01:21:30] actually it was, it was titled, um, you know, daily habits make your phone work for you and the best jacket you'll ever own.

Speaker 2: And the make your phone work for you was this great article from better human titled, a decently or a reasonably detailed guide to, um, making your phone work for you. And, uh, and that is a very long post. Um, but I said in the email that, um, you know, one of the things it says is these notifications, these pings, [01:22:00] every time you get a ping from your phone, it artificially spikes your cortisol levels, which is a stress hormone. And in men that can reduce libido and reduce testosterone when you have chronically elevated levels of cortisol, um, which is no bueno. Um, and in women, it can actually cause infertility issues. So again, wow, you have all these, um, you know, a dad podcast. This is there two things I heard recently that I, I really liked. Um, number [01:22:30] one is like, they don't tell you how hard it is to get pregnant. Number two is they actually make you feel like it's the easiest thing in the world. We're taught our whole life. You know, especially when we're young, um, this is a family program, but like no sex, you know, you'll, you could get pregnant, but it's like, you actually only can get pregnant in like, there's like three hours of when, uh, sorry, scientists, but this is an annual three hours, a small three hour [01:23:00] window, once every two years by bi-annually executive,

Speaker 2: Listen up guys. It's really hard. So have at it. Um, no, I mean, I'm, I'm probably getting the, like saving

Speaker 1: Safe decisions. People say

Speaker 2: That decisions, we're not, um, doctors, lawyers, and we don't pretend to be them on the internet. Um, but, but any who, uh, these cortisol levels can cause anxiety, trouble sleeping. Like you name the problem. [01:23:30] It's probably comes from cortisol. Um, you know, the feeling that you get when you're stressed cortisol. And so why give that to you? Even if, even if Tyler Ross texted me on my phone, boom, all of a sudden I'm stressed out. Is that a, is that a customer complaining? Is that my boss is that my wife does my son have the throat bug again. Um, and so this article details exactly what you need to do in order to reduce those triggers. And, and I said in the article, um, [01:24:00] it's really long, but you don't have to do it all the way through. I did it all the way through. Um, but you don't have to try a few things, see if it works because it could change your life. It definitely changed mine and, um, get away from your phone and, and, you know, as much as you can, um, it's better for your marriage. It's better for your libido. It's, it's better for the world. And maybe one day we'll understand how bad they really are.

Speaker 1: It's always five years later, right? Exactly. Five years later. So, [01:24:30] uh, with, with the world being so different, cause obviously when we were in high school, we didn't have that kind of access. And obviously the further back we go into middle school and the rest of it's even less access. So your kids are grown up in the context of full-time ag. I mean, Elon Musk talks about putting this stuff into your brain and not even having to communicate with spoken word. Um, so tell me about the, the, [01:25:00] the context of the world that you grew up in, in the context of the world that Judah, Margo are gonna grow up and, and something that you think is an advantage you had and something you think is an advantage that they're going to have.

Speaker 2: So I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, and then moved to, um, Fredericksburg, Virginia when I was a junior in high school. Um, mom and dad, do you still think that that was a tough decision, but [01:25:30] I'm here to tell you, I would never know guys like Tyler Ross, if we didn't make that move. And it was, um, the most impactful thing I believe in my life until obviously like getting married, having kids up until that point when I was about 17. Um, so first of all, I think that was a advantage, um, that I had as a kid and I will, I have, um, we've already sort of imposed [01:26:00] that on our, our kids. Uh, we moved from to Richmond. My son has been in three daycares. Um, and, uh, we took him at nine months. We took him to Portugal for three weeks, so travel and, um, yeah, trout would be a source, a little island.

Speaker 2: We basically did nothing except hike and hang out with, with June, um, this great picture of him eating volcanic sand black sand, like Oliver's face, but travel and, and, um, and moving and exposure to [01:26:30] the world. I think I really think our biggest problem. I think our two biggest problems as a country, I'm very optimistic person. I think we're, I think we have, uh, amazing, um, they're amazing things going on and amazing things actually have a, this book I'm not, um, for those watching, um, this book was called bold by Peter Diamandis Diamandis, who is the, uh, creator of the X prize and title of the book is how to go big, [01:27:00] create wealth and impact the world. Um, there's another book and another great book called the magic of thinking big I'm halfway through that book. Oh, great. I'm a huge proponent of that stuff.

Speaker 2: I don't think that like happy thoughts result in happy life, but I think it's easier to be pessimistic than optimistic. And I think that things happen to optimistic people because you're looking, you're looking for them. So I'm very optimistic actually about junior Margo's future. But obviously I have concerns, but, [01:27:30] um, I didn't watch a ton of TV growing up. I loved Alabama football. Um, and so I basically watched college football and that's about it. And I fall asleep and pretty much every show or movie I watch, which is good now because I actually have now seen every Disney movie or not every, but a lot of Disney movies for the first time. First 15 minutes of it, 10 to fall asleep. I saw lion king for the first time. Oh, amazing movie. Now, some new ones. Um, great ones for the kids guys out there.

Speaker 2: If you haven't watched [01:28:00] Rio or Luca on, uh, Disney plus, um, you will love it anyway. So, uh, I was outside a lot, um, playing with my neighbor's home run Derby. Um, I loved to put a bandana around my face and like run around our grill while dad smoked barbecue. I pretended to be like a fireman. So, you know, like this is cliche, but we had this free-range parenting, um, lifestyle where we could run around you, like go [01:28:30] outside, don't come home to the sun, goes down, uh, you know, or your foot is chopped up from your bicycle wreck. Um, cause you wear Tivas when you buy it, we're close, close to those shoes, kids when you get on a bicycle. Um, and uh, you know, and, and then we moved to Virginia and I was an hour away from high school. I drove an hour to and from school.

Speaker 2: Um, and for some reason I'm feeling like our kids probably won't ever drive a car. Um, [01:29:00] so I don't think they'll necessarily need a driver's license. So, you know, you can, you can say that's, the technology is bad and that I-phones are bad. Now I just FYI sitting with my iPhone right here. I love my iPhone. I just believe it just like anything. It's a tool that you know, that you need to work for you and not own you. Um, you know, your stuff ends up owning you as they say, your phone can own you, if you, if you let it. So just be conscious about how you use it and that's all. [01:29:30] But that's the thing that I'm, I think about technology is that, um, like a Uber, you might be able to go anywhere. Like now you can live in w we lived in DC and we used to live in Glover park.

Speaker 2: It was really hard to get around. Cause there's no Metro up there, but now you can get, now you can Uber anywhere you can, scooter, you can like going back to the crazy thing. When one day I was, I was biking to the Metro and then the next day I was on a scooter, like electric power to the Metro. And I thought [01:30:00] that exact same thing just, just last week, I was biking to the Metro. Now riding a motorized scooter, what am I going to be doing next week? That I'll think is like, I can't believe I didn't, I can't believe I haven't been doing this my whole

Speaker 1: Well I've, I've got, I've got, I've got one, you know, since we're on the topic of transportation, uh, it's a hard, it's a hard tangent, but transportation, you can deliver babies in cars.

Speaker 2: We have not gone there.

Speaker 2: [01:30:30] Oh man. So, yeah, so that is crazy. Um, so I think we'll go there, but the, the world that I grew up in, um, you know, if you got rid of phone, I used to have to call people and say, Hey, is my best friend in Alabama? Is Morgan awake yet? Nope, Nope. I was like, okay. So, um, you know, I, now I can text them. Um, now you can, uh, you can go anywhere. You want, you could learn [01:31:00] anything. I, I think that's one of the biggest things. Technology, you can learn anything like how to, how to set up a marketing email, drip campaign, YouTube, boom. Um, what is micro economics? Coursera, boom free course from Stanford. I mean, come on. So, uh,

Speaker 1: Uh, the artist it's affecting the art of conversation to some extent, because you don't have to have this stuff out anymore. I love, I love the questions that can't be answered, [01:31:30] who would win one-on-one Kobe or Jordan, who would, who would, you know, stuff like that.

Speaker 2: Exactly. And, um, I think you just, you need to make a conscious effort to have in-person connection. And I very optimistic about Jr. Marcus future I'm like they might never hold a textbook and learn only on an iPad. They might never drive a car. They might, there might, they might find the cure for cancer. I think those are things [01:32:00] like the, they might be able to communicate without actually talking because they have chips in their head. They might be able to see, um, cancer, you know, in, uh, you know, in their, through their Google glasses. I don't know. They might be able to our buddy, Peter came up with this great idea that you could walk into a bar, open your phone. And he called it icebreakers. Peter, if I'm, if I'm exposing your million dollar idea, I'm sorry, I'm actually only 11. People are listening to this.

Speaker 2: They're all related to us, but say you [01:32:30] walk into a bar and all of a sudden on your phone, you have bios of everybody in the bar. So you can walk up to somebody and immediately have this connection. So there are all these great things, but with great power comes great responsibility. And of course there are negative players out there, um, that are going to go after that. But, um, in COVID I think we have learned how important real connection is. Um, and a lot of COVID was in the winter. It started in the spring, you know, and then, but we all were there [01:33:00] all, we were all there from November through till March where we couldn't spend time with family over Thanksgiving and Christmas, we like spin it alone, you know, or with our own family, we couldn't go out to restaurants. We only could get takeout.

Speaker 2: Um, and if we did, we had to sit outside and it was really chilly here in Virginia, in February, if we want hanging out with friends, you don't, I didn't think, I don't think I went into a friend's house for a very long time. So what do you [01:33:30] do? You have to hang out on the porch in the backyard, very cold incomes, fire pits. We realized that the best way to connect outside is around a fire, especially when it's cold and even when it's not cold and firepit sales went through the roof. So Listo has this article where there, their sales were up 300% this year versus last year, this winter versus last winter. And it made me realize actually how important human connection was we, um, [01:34:00] but it's really hard. It's hard to find these real true connections to connect over food. And with your spouse to connect with your kids, to connect with your friends, your family, or yourself, like just sitting in front of a fire, like in the morning, um, with coffee or a book, um, just like the best way to kind of center yourself and, and, and, you know, it's hard, it's hard.

Speaker 2: It was hard to find that the ability to connect, but it's really easy to connect around the fire. So, [01:34:30] but you know, I, I I've said this too is like one time I wanted to have a fire in my wood was like all the way over in the woodpile. And there was snow on the ground. I was gonna have to walk through the snow. And then I started storing my wood on my front porch and I was like, genius. I only have to put on socks. And so one of the things I started doing was I started delivering like a couple of logs to people's front porch, just like, you don't even have to go to the woodpile. I'll, I'll deliver it a stack it on your woodpile, but you don't have to go to whip. Ah, so how can, how can we make making fires [01:35:00] much easier so that you can then connect with your kids?

Speaker 2: I grew up sitting around the fire, so that was really my childhood. My dad would turn the AC on in Alabama so that we could have a fire in October. Um, we didn't watch movies, but we like hung out by the fire and then grilling and, and everything. And so, um, you know, w I I've been to a lot of concerts back when you could go to concerts where they're using microphones, there's like old timey microphones, um, who was that? The, uh, Nora Jones was one. And then the Avett brothers was one [01:35:30] wood brothers, all these different, like Americana bands are unplugging their amps and like huddling around these, like, um, and are these like original sort of microphones or they're just turning it off completely. I saw, um, um, uh, iron in wine and Calico at the Ryman while I was traveling from work at my old job.

Speaker 2: Um, and the opener was Bela Fleck and Abigail Washburn who are just [01:36:00] like bluegrass banjo, just bandits. And she comes out in this, like after, uh, a separate, the lights are off just her barefoot with this like, sort of coal miner's daughter dress. And this spotlight on her, actually, maybe not even a spotlight, maybe a candle. And she just, and the Ryman is, uh, is one of the most famous venues, music Indies in America. It's like an old church in Nashville. She comes out to the edge of the stage and just like sings a solo with no microphone, [01:36:30] no lights about being a coal miner's daughter. And I got kind of chills. I think the whole point of that is to say that I think that there's this like, um, resurgence of people sort of being connected, um, all day long, but now looking for ways to disconnect.

Speaker 2: And I think there's a big craze out there about all these tech people making their own sourdough bread. I don't know if you've seen that. I've seen a little bit of, one of the best sourdough bread bakers in the world is like one of the Twitter founders or something. [01:37:00] So delicious areas, hope you can, you can connect. Connection is amazing. All these different, like, you know, um, movements would never have happened without this group. Connection and governments have, have changed and policies, which, and there's like so much good about this sort of new generation looking for connection through the phone, but like, you still have to have the real personal and in-person connections. And I think that people are purposely unplugging. [01:37:30] So I guess again, just kind of teach that to your kids through action. Like you can, you know, you can't necessarily tell them that you just have to show them, and if you're on your phone all the time, they're going to see that I saw a kid one time, like, hold up. Actually, my son had somebody I saw and held up my shin guard yesterday to his ear and pretended to be on the phone, you

Speaker 1: See kids with books, like try to swipe it like an iPad. [01:38:00] They turn the page, turn the page.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Model the behavior that you hope that they, uh, fentanyl.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And they connection to validate that thought is why I'm excited to be doing this podcast again, to get to, you know, this is legit connection too, even though we're, you know, two hours away from each other to get to spend time with you. Like, this is really cool. And I'm so glad again, thank you for spending time with me. It's awesome to connect here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. [01:38:30] Thank you.

Speaker 1: So tell me, tell me about your drive to the hospital for Margo.

Speaker 2: Okay. So, um, this, um, my wife is pregnant with our second kid, of course. So, so December due date and, um, we use the, um, midwives out of VCU. Um, that's a VCU hospital here in Richmond and label the labor and delivery department [01:39:00] there is beautiful and they have this great, um, midwife, um, um, uh, what's the term, uh, whatever, they've great team of midwives, um, which a midwife, you know, again, going back to marriage coaching, it's one of those similar, like dirty words, but it's effectively, it's like, you're healthy if you're a healthy, um, mom, if you, if you, you know, as long as you don't have complications on the way, and if you treat your body right, [01:39:30] and you, you know, are just a sort of normal thing than like pregnancy and childbirth is like what we're meant to do, what women are, like their bodies are meant to do that.

Speaker 2: So just like let it happen. Um, of course it's all done the hospital. There was always doctors around, but it's a little more relaxed. Um, and so due date was December 9th and I'm sorry, it was December 2nd. And, um, we go over and we're over a day or two or three and, [01:40:00] and, um, Katie goes into labor on December 8th at about 7:00 PM or so. And so, um, you know, I've, I've read the, the birth partner, which is if you're one thing real quick is that if, if I don't understand something, I can be really scared to do it. Or if I don't feel prepared like public speaking, great example, if I'm not prepared for a public speech, I might be more stressed out than I would if I was really prepared or like a test or anything. So [01:40:30] I figured I'm gonna, we're gonna have this baby.

Speaker 2: Uh, our first, we might as well read a book about it and, and figure out like, what should I expect? So I read the birth partner, um, and, uh, have all the techniques of like, um, helping Katie through labor. And then, um, you know, we're calling the midwives and all of a sudden it's like, all right, it's time to go in. So 3:00 AM on December now, it's December 9th, 3:00 AM. Uh, we go in the hospital [01:41:00] and, and, um, and it's, it's happening. I mean, this is number two, baby is on the way. And we get there and Katie is just like, barely dilated.

Speaker 2: It just like, kind of was so disappointing. I was like, we've been laboring or she's been laboring for so long. And then all of a sudden it's like, wait, we get our first stun was like 24 hours of labor and really difficult. So she was really concerned about like being in the hospital for 24 more hours. So [01:41:30] we're like, can we, can we leave? Like, yeah, sure. If for those out there, if you don't, if you, if you leave before two hour time, mark, at least at VCU, you're not considered to have been processed. So you're not actually a patient, so you can leave anytime. Um, people do it all the time. I get to meet a lot of moms that have come in and left. So we leave and we come home and Katie, Katie labors at home in our bed and [01:42:00] Katie's parents are here and they've got our son, um, because Katie's laboring and he, there's no way he'd be able to sleep through that.

Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure actually Katie woke up, uh, a neighbor. Um, they told us about the next day. So the in-laws and, and June are across the street and, and, um, at 6:30 AM. So we're talking about three and a half hours later. Katie is like, I think like we got to go like it's and I, I called the hospital, like, we're on our way. So we come down [01:42:30] and Katie gets in the car and she's like, I'm not going to make it to the hospital. And I was like, no, no, no, no, they don't have babies in cars, no big deal. And she's like, no, like I don't get mom. So her mom's a labor delivery nurse. So I run in the house, like get out of here. And Katie's about how this baby, so she comes out, he's like, go, y'all need to go get there.

Speaker 2: So we just like immediately started driving. Um, two of you in the car, Katie's mom with you, it's just the two of us. So this is something [01:43:00] that, you know, another thing is, um, when people hear that, the details like the, the story is a little, um, you know, it's like, once you tell a secret, it's like no longer that cool anymore. Who's now, now in the secrets. So when people hear the real details, there was like, oh, okay. But, um, we have two cars, we have two cars seat bases in the back, so nobody could, could be back there. It was just like a goat. And Katie loves to tell this part, but I went, I went the wrong way [01:43:30] of our street. So I had to basically go up our street, take a left, and then take another left. You know, I'm like the FedEx truck, like, did they not take less?

Speaker 2: Or they don't take rights, whatever. Um, so I basically went like around three blocks to get back to the same spot, to get on the highway. And Katie's like, call, like we had, we had to do a call the doula, like I'm not going to make it. And I'm like, everything's okay. So I called the doula, like Katie saying, she's not going to make it. It was like go to the emergency room. So [01:44:00] she's like, where are y'all? I'll come to you. I was like, we're just getting on 95. She's like, okay, well that obviously I can't meet you on 95. So just go to the emergency room go. So we get on 95, we're going. And Katie is like pushing. She's like pushing her feet on the, the floorboard under the glove department. And like in her head is like up, like to the left of the, like, she's like a pencil, you know, like, and, uh, you know, we're in our 400 that I, I, I, we got a, um, a used, [01:44:30] but new 4runner, like a week earlier.

Speaker 2: So we're in our new, new 4runner and it's has technology that our Honda doesn't have. So the seatbelt thing is like, like beeping at her to buckle up. So anyway, we're driving down the highway and I'm going like 60, 65, 70. Like, I pretty sure I passed the police officer. So the speed limit was 70 there. Um, and Katie goes, how, how much farther we have? And I'm like, um, it says GPS has seven minutes. And she's like, ah, I'm not, I'm not going to [01:45:00] no way, no way. And so I was like, no, Katie, like just a little bit longer. They, they, they say that, um, that you don't have babies in cars. And she goes, well, this, this girl is about to have a baby in a car. And so she's like, now it's now like game time, I'm driving 95, south 70 miles an hour.

Speaker 2: And Katie is like, hunter, I feel the head. And I'm like, she's like, I'm about to have this baby. I feel the head. And I looked down and, [01:45:30] and let's just say there was like full, like our underwear, you're storing underwear and this, like, it's kind of bulging out. And again, how many people listens. Okay. So it was like bolding. And I go, and I'm thinking like the, like the baby's stuck. And so I'm like, well, if you're gonna, if you're going to do it, like pull your underwear down. And so she's like, kind of pulls her on her now. And I mean, [01:46:00] head and I'm looking at, I'm looking down at the head, looking back at the road, looking down at this. Maybe we don't know what it is. So now seeing like the baby's head for the first time, obviously, and then Katie reaches down and grabs under the armpits and just pulls her up.

Speaker 2: Um, and it's a surprise. And so I'm like looking in, looking at the road, I'm looking at the baby, looking at the road and Katie goes, [01:46:30] it's a girl. And then like the motherly instincts, again, women, moms out there like bow down, like we are not worthy. I, um, it's, it was incredible. She just starts like scooping using her pinkie to like scoop out Morgan's mouth to make sure that it was clear, but Margot was, you know, so she was six days late. Um, so she was like completely pink. Like just very, like, I think when you're the later a baby is the less, the, [01:47:00] um, just like the less purple and anyways. So she comes out and it's just like completely paint. And just immediately, he goes like, you know, just like almost immediately getting scoops out her mouth and like, and immediately brings her to skin and, and Katie just kept going.

Speaker 2: We're okay. We're okay. We're okay. Meanwhile, I missed the X 74 B Margot [01:47:30] Guerin, Margaret Campbell. Garren's seven pounds, 19 inches born seven seven, roughly 700 3:00 AM on 95, south exit 74 B never again yet. Um, our Christmas card says Margaret Garren, Margaret cable, Guerin, Margo born seven bounds. Beautiful. Um, and so the first thing I do is I know babies want to be warm, you know, in the hospital, they put them on the incubator. So [01:48:00] I immediately take off my, uh, down, uh, sweater jacket made by Patagonia, which I said is the only jacket you'll ever own. It's an incredible jacket. And so I wrapped her in this jacket. I cranked up the heat. I pull over, I called the doula and I said, we just had a baby in the car. It's a girl just said, go to the emergency room. So, but before I get past this, I just let the record show [01:48:30] that I basically had nothing to do with that birth, except that I was able to not drive our car off the road.

Speaker 2: And that Katie pulled this baby out, like at speed, at speed at six, at 70 miles an hour. So Margaret was born at 70 miles an hour and she's like the chillest baby in the world. So she was like, guys, I'm going to come out. And like, it's all going to be good. And now we have all these great nicknames for Margo cargo, Margaret. So we [01:49:00] pull into the hospital, I'll be pulling the emergency room. I run inside. My wife just said, okay, the metal detector is going off. It's COVID like, I don't have a mask on all the doctors and guards and everything have their masks on. I run through the metal detector, sir, wait, I'm like, it's fine. You know, it's okay if I don't get one gym period quote in here and I failed myself. Um, and so like, we just had a baby [01:49:30] in the car and they go, what, what?

Speaker 2: And I said, we just had a baby in the car. And they were like, do you need a stroller? And they like hand motion to Stoller. Cause they were behind the plexiglass. Maybe they get in here. I was like, no, I need a doctor. And so the comes out almost immediately with like 25 nurses and male and female here at VCU it's shift change. So there's like tons of them. And it's like so exciting. It's like E E R a baby [01:50:00] being born. It's like beautiful and really traumatic. So all these people come out and you know, it's great. And there's like, congratulations, dad. And they put Katie and Margo on a gurney and put a blanket. And so, you know, she's getting out of the car, like holding this baby cord, still attached, sorry, you'll have to do an explicit, um, content warning. And they take her up and they say, you know, go, go park a hunter.

Speaker 2: Um, and so I, I drive around the corner and call Katie's parents and call my parents. And like Katie's parents just said [01:50:30] that I was just laughing. Like I was just like, cause it was like, you know, shock and like so exciting and just had a baby girl and she's like so healthy and Katie's laughing. And it was like a, just a very, um, natural, you know, it was actually, I always say that the sound of birth is like, I've never heard it before, because June was born in a hospital with like other people saying, like push push, and like, and then like, as he comes out like, oh, here we go in the Carver. It's just like [01:51:00] you and you and mom and now a baby. And it was like crazy. It was like, we left the house. There was of course three people, you know, with Margo in the belly. But like we left our house with two people in the car. A lot of dads say this and I agree. It's like when the baby comes out, it's like all of a sudden there's another person in the room. It's just a strange experience. It's incredible. But it's like, like there were two people in this car and now they're three. Like what? Um, so, but it [01:51:30] is very, a very intimate, um, private birth to say the least. And, uh,

Speaker 1: With exception to the other cars on the road,

Speaker 2: Fortunately it was like 7:00 AM on a one day. Was that whatever, um, I feel like it was a weekend, but anyhow, it was 70 am, so it wasn't super busy. So it was very, and then we pulled over on this on 74 B, which is, I believe Franklin and 12th street enrichment, downtown Richmond, cause right next to BCU hospital. And [01:52:00] it, you know, it's, COVID ha like, have you ever been downtown DC or downtown Richmond or wherever you live downtown Warrington in COVID in the morning. I mean, nobody is there. There's just like emptiness and um, you know, they, they say you, you want to follow the like traffic laws when you're driving to the hospital because like, you don't want to get a wreck. And so meanwhile, Katie is holding this baby wrapped in the jacket with the heat on and I'm like sitting at the stoplight, waiting on it to turn green. [01:52:30] Oh man. Um, it's wild, man.

Speaker 1: Thank you again. All right. Fully, too much coffee, too much water, I guess I need to do better next time or get a stadium. One of those things that you connect to your go truckers.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that's the power of, of radio is technologies.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And on YouTube, you don't have to [01:53:00] wear pants that's right up. Um, so, um, we've, we've talked to her a long time and I, I feel like we could do a six part series and just rap and that's before we even got to daddy or I want to talk to you about Lama would more and more, but in the interest of us going to lunch and the audience, I want to jump into some of my, uh, the questions that I ask everybody at the end. Have you listened to one of these? Do you have any, do you have any idea what's coming up? [01:53:30] Okay, perfect. Perfect. So, uh, I have this list of questions that I like to hear what everybody has to say and sometimes inspire some interesting thoughts. So the first question is what gift? Money, time, space, no object at all. What gift would you give to every father on the, on the planet?

Speaker 2: Money, time, space, no object.

Speaker 2: [01:54:00] I want to, I want to go deeper, but at the same time, um, I want to, I'm going to go back to our first kid June. Um, so one thing real quick, actually, I'm going to give you two things. Number one is I always wanted to write a book and you're actually the author. So [01:54:30] you want to do it together. Let's talk, it's titled how to parent your first, like it's your second. Um, and so I would give them that book because I don't want to interview all of my friends and family that have had at least two kids and be like, what on your second kid did you do differently than your first? Um, and you know, I would say I having a baby in a car that apparently they they're really chill babies. No, but I'm gonna [01:55:00] use a recommendation from our good friend, our mutual friend, Stephanie bill is I would give them the keeper Ru um, I think it's called the Keeker rude doughnut or the Keeker Ru peanut.

Speaker 2: And it is a changing table pad that is like this crazy material. I think it's like foam, but with like antibacterial anti moisture wicking, or moisture-wicking [01:55:30] not anti moisture, hurricane antibacterial, waster, wicking, white down baby changing table. And it's, it fits right on top of your dresser and your, and your nursery. Um, and if you have a boy June, for whatever reason, every time he took off his diaper, he peed on us. And when everywhere, you know, like you're, you're using the new diaper as a shield and it just gets all over your changing table. You already do so much laundry with babies. Like you're washing onesies, [01:56:00] sleep sacks, burp, cloths, you name it. So why wash your changing pad sheet? I've seen some changing paths that are like that have a fitted sheet and they look beautiful. I think getting from pottery barn, you can have, you can have a white picket fence and a changing pad with a sheet on it, but I highly recommend, and it would, would give you a key crew, peanut baby changing table. Thank you very much, Stephanie bill. Why

Speaker 1: Wouldn't everything be made out of that?

Speaker 2: [01:56:30] Yeah, seriously.

Speaker 1: All right. So, uh, when in your life do you feel the most love?

Speaker 2: Hm. You know, um,

Speaker 1: Sitting around the campfire Lama wood.com. Thank you very

Speaker 2: Much. Higher level a.com. Um, Hey, like on that front, um, guys out there, I don't know how many, how many of you have a pile of wood that you I'm going to stack? It I'll stack [01:57:00] it. Don't worry. I'll stack it. That never gets stacked. And, uh, let us bring you that wood and stack it for you. I, I will say I just, I, I was just texting about a drop go and it's like, oh, I thought I thought y'all were going to stack it. Like, um, she was stacked folks

Speaker 1: Interested in option on the website

Speaker 2: Option. It's an option on the website it's instant and you get an instant price on it. Um, it takes us a lot longer and actually it's a lot easier to do [01:57:30] for it up and goes, but from a customer experience, um, have a stack it, um, no, but the, uh, the most love, I feel like I felt was at our wedding. Um, so when in life, when you're surrounded by friends and family, the most important people, um, in your, in your world, um, you know, if you, if you have any wedding anxiety, um, oh, there's gonna be a hundred or 200 or 50 or five or whatever. People watching me standing there, like give my [01:58:00] vowels. And then you look out and it's like all of your, the closest friends and family on the planet. And, um, and like to have that many people surround you.

Speaker 2: So the wedding was like the, the, the street moment, but you know, my good, my good friend hunter Knowles gave, uh, married my friend, Kevin Smith. And he, we are all Clemson tigers and we all love Debow Sweeney. And [01:58:30] he gives this speech that says life is, you know, like there's going to be really exciting moments like a wedding or a, uh, or a baby or a big vacation or a, or, um, a new car, but, and those are great. But like, life is really about the moments in between because 99% of your life is 99.9% of your life are the small moments every day with your wife and kids and your friends and family and your life [01:59:00] is, you know, you remember the big things, but you're really, you are personally kind of defined as by the, the small things. And so, um, that was a moment of like extreme love, but then along the way, you know, I have an amazing wife.

Speaker 2: Um, it was extremely supportive. I have amazing kids. I mean, when my son looked to me and said, dad, I'm having a great day. I mean, the guy was strapped into a car seat for, for like eight hours throwing up in a trash bag and he that's unconditional love right there. Um, [01:59:30] I mean, dogs, I think I hear dogs do it. We don't have one, but, um, just those small moments, you know, if you have, sometimes it's hard to, um, to quote my, the, the, the, uh, Nobel, uh, literature, Nobel prize in literature winner, um, uh, Ferris Bueller is sometimes you have to slow down because, you know, life will pass you by, sorry. Again, I don't watch movies. [02:00:00] So I don't know if that's quote, but those small moments in life, you know, you, there's a lot of love out there if you, if you listen to it, um, there's that great New York times thing about this, uh, like concert, violin player, like I'm talking about with the best violin players in the world, it goes down to the New York subway and it kind of dresses up like a, you know, like a homeless person or whatever it plays in plays like Mozart.

Speaker 2: And like, nobody stops to listen. They just like walk [02:00:30] right by. Maybe they throw a dollar in. That's like, we're so busy sometimes too to not actually like, um, it's not actually see the beauty, you know, in the world. So slow down and let the love in guys Do much water this morning.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you seen a Jimmy Fallon do the busting on the subway? Uh, yeah, there, it's a similar thing where they'll get, uh, you know, like maroon five and they'll all dress up [02:01:00] like homeless people. They look like characters, so it's not as, I mean, people can see through the masks and everything, so it's not as fun. Um, the concept is a fun concept.

Speaker 2: I need to watch that because Jimmy Fallon is, uh, shares my experience. He shares my, my, um, dad experience of he had a baby in the lobby of his apartment building. And apparently, yeah, apparently there's a whole story about it and like, it, it made it on your show. Um, so [02:01:30] I need to watch more Jimmy Fallon to cause, you know,

Speaker 1: And hold a candle to 70 miles an hour missing your exit. I'd love to think of the like garment or Siri or something going turn missed, turn it around.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Or you turn, I actually butt dialed. My mother-in-law like, I mean, you cannot make this up. I butt down on my mother-in-law and like, most of our car ride is recorded as a voicemail. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Uh [02:02:00] we're we're going to do everything we can to get our hands on that audio people. So we'll upload

Speaker 2: Never before her, outside of this family.

Speaker 1: That's amazing. All right. Um, this isn't on my list, but I'm curious to know, uh what's uh, when your kids are young to June is 2, 3, 3. So what's, what's a piece of advice that you've gotten that you haven't been able to, [02:02:30] um, you know, put into play yet, Or that you're anticipating putting into play

Speaker 2: Piece of advice. I'm anticipating. I think this is great. Um, a great one. Um, I am very passionate about education. Um, I tutor a boy named Deion Sanders. First of all, how [02:03:00] about that name? Second of all. Um, ADI he's, I've been tutoring him in DC since he was in kindergarten and now he is going into ninth grade. Wow. It's incredible. And, um, you know, number one, I learned a lot about parenting from working with him. Um, this is a little bit out of your question, but maybe, oh man, I gotta send this to you. I, oh, if I read it, it's kinda long, I'd probably cry. So [02:03:30] I won't do that, but there's this thing, uh, in Dale Carnegie talks about and how to win friends and influence people. The great, great book recommendation for dads out there, basically talk to people about what they're interested in. Like you're doing talk to people about themselves because everybody wants to talk about themselves. Like you're doing one day, let's reverse the script and you and your

Speaker 1: Let's do. I did that with Steven Watson. It [02:04:00] was fun. And that was two and a half years ago. So completely different person. Now,

Speaker 2: If you teach me, you teach me the ways of podcasting and I promise I will, we will reverse the script here. Um, but anyway, I learned a lot in the, the, the thing in this book is called father forgets. I think father forgets her father for gifts. And it's, it'd be hard. It's hard to read because the dad is sitting on the bed while the son sleeps. And he like, [02:04:30] the dad just starts apologizing for like, not doing this or not doing that. And of course, we've all, like, I think we've all felt that at some point of like, you know, you think about when they're one, like June's three, Margot's about to be 10 months and you look back and you go, like, what of course, what would I have done differently? Like up to one. And then now, then it's up to two.

Speaker 2: And, you know, so, um, maybe advice that I have given [02:05:00] myself, you know, that, that that's, that sometimes it's hard to implement is like just slow down and like, really just like, who cares, you know, like stop, stop caring so much about anything else and just like care only about the kids, you know? And, and I think that's a big one, just like nothing else matters. Really. It really doesn't the health and the happiness and your family and your kids. [02:05:30] And so just like, no, no, that a lot more than you probably. And I probably, you know, no it, um, but the other one was okay, so education, um, I think is really important. And I went to private school, you know, that's how I met you through, through high school. And then I went to a public university, um, university, great, great school, a very different life.

Speaker 2: You know, I'd graduated with 32 people from Highland. Um, [02:06:00] and I graduated with thousands and thousands of people from, from constant. And, um, so public school versus private school is a big question that, that we have, you know, I grew up in private school from fifth grade on and, um, and my wife went to public school all the way through high school to college. And even, I think she went to a private grad school is American private, well, I have to Google it. Yeah. Okay. So she, she has a little private school in there. [02:06:30] Um, they charge tuition like it's private. So I was like, all right, in DC, one of the reasons we moved is because we really wanted you to go to public school and the public school, the public elementary school in our neighborhood. It was great. And then just the, the private school, I mean the, uh, the middle school is okay.

Speaker 2: And then you also, you get into lotteries and all that stuff. So there's some certain schools that we would like to get into. And so we're going to have to move. And then those neighborhoods, [02:07:00] the housing prices are much higher. So we're like, let's go somewhere. Let's go somewhere cheaper. That has good public schools. Anyway. So there's this like thing about public school versus private school. And I never really thought about this question until I had kids. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, what, what do you sort of do? And so we're saying to all the friends, like, where are you going? You know, what are you going to do? And I went to private schooling, um, like, do I want to send my kids to Highland great school? I love Highland, uh, hello, [02:07:30] all the Highland people. I can imagine that there's a good bit of you listening out there and gossip.

Speaker 2: It was an incredible high school. And that's one reason why it's such a big question is like the friends that I have from Highland are some of the best friends of my life. And, and I see that a lot in small classes, like people stay really close yet at the same time, public school is you, you pay tax dollars for it. And like, you want to be a part of the community and you can walk to all of them from our house. And so, [02:08:00] you know, um, my wife is very pro public school. I'm kinda like, I never really thought about it until now. And so I was talking to a friend and his advice was, well, have you ever asked him? And I was like, I didn't even think about that. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, just like when they, when it gets time, ask them, do you want to go, do you want to go to the private school?

Speaker 1: I'm on the corner right now. That's my dad here you to come say hi to hunter. We're actually recording [02:08:30] the podcast right now. So you get to be listened to, Hey, hunter,

Speaker 2: How are you?

Speaker 1: Good. This is great. What are you guys talking about? Any secrets that I need to understand? Okay.

Speaker 2: Well, it's, it's all going to be out there. Um, so

Speaker 1: With every other Schmo.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, it's, um, dollar has been great. It's, um, spread I'm, I'm letting it all out, so

Speaker 1: That's great. [02:09:00] All right. Take care. Good to see you. [inaudible]

Speaker 2: Cool. Okay. Um, right. So, so bottom line is, ask, ask your kids, what do they want? You know, it's not all about like you figuring it all out for them. What do you do you want to go, that you want to go that this school or that school, maybe they maybe they're like, I I'm on a great soccer team. I want to stay at the school. Never go. Awesome. So I, you know, I've asked him many other questions, but I haven't yet I've yet to get to ask him where he wants to go to school. [02:09:30] And, um, so that's, uh, I will implement that piece of advice when we get to that point.

Speaker 1: Th there's something to be said for that. And having that conversation is, I don't think we give kids enough credit for how smart they are and what harm is it in asking the question? Let them them not think at all about it, or think critically about it because ultimately, you know, 3, 5, 7, 9 year old kid, it's just input. It's just more information. So maybe they, they definitely have a perspective. We don't have the stuff that my kids tell [02:10:00] me or express or perceive just like, oh my gosh, I wish I was more like you sometimes, sometimes like, thank God you don't have the power of the steering wheel. All right. So, uh, what are three adjectives or characteristics, uh, required for someone to be a super dad?

Speaker 2: Okay. First of all, you're testing my understanding of the English [02:10:30] grammar. So that is not a requirement. Um, um, being a superdad. Um, no, I feel like this, the way that I would answer this is I think a question that Katie and I talk about is like, [02:11:00] what do you want to teach? If you could, if you could pass over any of your qualities or if, if one of, if they get one of your qualities, what would you want it to be? Um, and, uh, again, like maybe bleep this out. If you have to school, you have to school me on what an adjective is, but, um, it's funny and adjective. Yeah. Okay. So, um, I think optimism, [02:11:30] um, I think a level of silliness, um, you know, these are just, again, these are like my personal things, you know, not every super dad has to have these, but maybe my view of a super dad optimistic, silly, and, um, honest, I think, sum it up.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. Okay. Um, the billboard question, you're going 70 miles an hour on 95 missing [02:12:00] exit 74 a and now you're at 74 B, but uh, you build a big billboard on the highway and you're going to blow by it, but you have an opportunity to give a message to every parents out there. So fits on the billboard, read it at speed. What's that message to all the dads out there. So,

Speaker 2: Okay. So first of all, again, you, you, you have the editing power, but I am a huge Tim Ferris fan

Speaker 1: His question.

Speaker 2: I, [02:12:30] I don't know if I mentioned, but my goal in life was to be on a podcast. So you've made, you've made it, I've made it now. Um, and he asked this question, I feel like I'm on Tim Ferris right now. So thank you. Um, okay. So you know what, funny enough, I've he asked this question to everybody and I've never really thought about my own. And, um, certainly don't remember everyone, so I'll have to come up with one. Um, so, but yours is a little different because this is like, what, what would it say to a parent or a dad? [02:13:00] I, um, and, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm an indecisive person. So can I give you two?

Speaker 1: Sure, sure.

Speaker 2: Um, three

Speaker 2: [02:13:30] We're negotiating and negotiation though. We should hit the middle and I should keep too. All right. We're back at two. Okay. I'll stay at two. I'll stay. All right. The first one is the golden rule. Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you. Um, cause I think any message to give to a parent is a message to give to everybody. Um, you know, Tim Ferriss, our friend recommends this book about training a [02:14:00] dog and it's called don't shoot the dog, I think. And he reads it about interacting with people. Like the way that you treat a dog is the way that you, you know, you know, the same, the way you do anything is how you do everything. So do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Um, and the other one is I love this. I don't know why it wouldn't necessarily be applicable to parents, but, um, I am an old man who has, uh, known [02:14:30] many troubles.

Speaker 2: Most of them never happened. And that's mark Twain and confused, thoughtful drivers. Yeah. That's a lot of words. What does that mean? Exactly. It's hard to have a baby and read that at the same time, but you know, you probably worry as a parent, you probably worry about so many things and for public school or private school, should I have this baby in the hospital or in the car? Um, like I'm, uh, I am so worried about choking. Like I, [02:15:00] I blend all of Margo's food to the, like Katie said the smithereens blend, the smithereens. Uh, and we, we, we know a lot of problems. We know a lot of work. We know a lot of troubles as dads. Um, but most of them never actually happened. So lighten up. Alright. Who's your favorite fictional dad? Fictional dad. I love, um, [02:15:30] I'm going to go with Jim Carey, man.

Speaker 2: I have to. And liar, liar, dad. Now folks listening out there. I don't love liars, but I was just thinking of this the other day, where he is like hanging out with his son and the mom is now dating another guy. Cause they're separated in the movie. Um, at the beginning of February, spoiler alert, [02:16:00] uh, don't listen from our three til three 15. Um, if you don't want to hear the ending of liar liar, but when, uh, the guy gives the son a baseball club and he goes, or no, when, when Jim Carrey gives his son a baseball glove and the new boyfriend goes, great gift dad. And then Tim Carey looks at him and goes, thanks son. Um, no, but, uh, I, I, that story, you know, [02:16:30] he was like, uh, I love Jim Carrey and um, he's silly. He's optimistic. And he's honest in that movie. So there you go. Perfect. Example of an ad.

Speaker 1: You still got the monologue from ACE Ventura teed up in your head. All right. You ready? Oh yeah. You ready? Let's do what you wouldn't [02:17:00] read about. Oh, you got that one?

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Sorry. Sorry, go back.

Speaker 1: [inaudible]

Speaker 2: [02:17:30] What do you know that you, you just say, what do you know about Ray Finkle? Microsoft give your graduates all your hygiene. 1976, Stetson university honors graduate class of 1980 holds stewards the AA division one records, one for points, one for distance form in the middle, the first and only ever present athlete to come out of Collier county and went to hell.

Speaker 1: I don't have that one. [02:18:00] That's great. And that's a good way to send us off to our last question. Okay. All right. I love it. Generations of Garins may listen to this podcast. What is something that you would share? What is something you would share with them? Uh, every generation of Garin. Is it just something that you'd like for them to know from you?

Speaker 2: I would say [02:18:30] your mom is the most incredible person on the planet. Um, however, I want you all to be your own truth and don't try to do anything that any don't try to do any don't be anything that you aren't and don't, you know, be true to yourself. And, um, it can be whatever, you know, I played soccer, [02:19:00] I love soccer. I hope our kids play soccer, but if they want to play cello instead. Great. Um, some of my favorite entrepreneurs out there are, um, one majored in political science, one majored in, um, east, east Asia studies. Uh, you can, you can do whatever you want. Um, you don't to do anything any particular way. [02:19:30] So, um, your mom is incredible, but you don't have to worry about trying to, uh, you know, fill her shoes. Just this, this matriarch of this family, um, would want you to, to explore and be whoever it is you want to be

Speaker 1: Beautiful. Let's wrap it up.

Speaker 2: Thank you, man. I am. I'm interested in [02:20:00] what, what people listening to this are going to, to, uh, think most, especially this, this life of mine, there could be some interesting dinner conversations.

Speaker 1: I haven't gotten to spend a lot of it. We're still recording by the way. I'll stop in just a second, but I mean, maybe Katie's gotta be in the next, uh, maybe she's got to be a guest on here.

Speaker 2: I learning to learning to dad. I mean, Hey, um, I think, you know, marriage coaching, great example, [02:20:30] I'm learning to mom, I'm, I'm learning what it is to be a mom, you know? Um, and she's learning what it is to be a dad. And I think that's, you know, they each have their unique challenges and the more and more you talk about it, that the more and more like this, you know, I knew I just had a feeling that I was gonna have. No, my walls are all crumbling down as speed. Um, because you know, these are, these are great questions. And I think that [02:21:00] it's super important that people talk about this stuff. Um, I was just, I just went to lunch with my neighbor, Tim. And I'm like, um, I guess I'm sorry if this, this I'm like asking him all these deep questions over barbecue, like what's, what are your values?

Speaker 2: And like, how are, how are you, um, how are you feeling about like being a dad and, and, you know, are you, you just go in deep and I'm like, sorry, man. He's like, no, it's like, this is great. Like [02:21:30] guy time dads out there, like schedule time with other dads and just guy friends be a dad, 99.9% of the time be, or be there for your family. Not percent, even when you're with friends, you're there, but block off a designated chunk of time. My father-in-law was great about this four hour round of golf every Saturday. Um, but then it's like superdad, you know, every other second of every other day and day in and day out. And it's like really important to like block off that time. Just [02:22:00] like you block off time without a phone or whatever, um, to, to share in these experiences and, and cause like, yeah, I mean this connection, I think is like, again, going back full circle, it's like really, really important and friends and the support team that you build is going to be there for you when you decide to do crazy things.

Speaker 2: Um, and when you decide to do very boring things [02:22:30] like Mitch Hedberg likes to come over to his friend's house and make sure that they don't start loading into a truck. He said, I like to help people stay put, basically that means I come over and I make sure that my friends don't start loading into a truck. I'm like, you need friends like that. You need friends to come over and just hang out and make sure you don't start loading that drunk. Like sometimes you're great right where you are. And a lot of times sprints can help you realize that.


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